MEP 002a Battery and Start Up Questions

[iamironshan]

Hello all,
First of all, first of all I am new here, and probably obviously new to military gensets! So I have a few questions that I hope you all can provide some insite on.

A little back story:

My boyfriend and I recently purchased and moved into a travel trailer. We moved it onto a piece of property that does not have any electric, sewage, or water on it. Since it costs so much to get electric out there (~$10,000), we decided to go with a military genset to use whenever we just need to charge the batteries or want to watch a movie. We do plan to one day to solar, and have the genset as a back up.

When we first received the genset (refurb from ebay. Seller had excellent reviews), it took a few tries to start it up, but we figured it was just because it hadn't been run in a little while. Everything seemed good, albeit loud! All the gauges work, the only thing-that we knew before we even purchased it-was that it can't be switched to three phase. However, after that, each time we try to start it up it takes a few tries. Is this normal? We have seen videos where people are able to get it started up first try, no problem. Also, a couple weeks after we purchased this genset the hertz meter stopped working. Is this something that is easily replaceable? Or is it easy enough to find the right operating load without having this meter? Additionally, last week we went out to start it, as our batteries were running low in the trailer so we needed to juice up. Well, the light on the genset was left on, so the battery was dead. In order to get it to start up we had to use my boyfriend's 2005 Nissan Titan to jump the batteries so we could get it running. We tried to run it again last night, the batteries appeared to be dead, and no lights were left on. This time, we did not have his truck so we had to use my 2000 Saturn sedan to get rejuice. We ran it for probably 3 hours last night, and this morning the batteries were completely dead again. One note to add here is that 2 bolts that tighten the cables onto the batteries were missing, one because it fell off and we lost it, and the other because we took it off so we could go to Ace to get a replacement. We thought maybe this caused a loose connection with the batteries, which would make it difficult to start. However, upon replacing the two bolts, we were still unable to get it to start.

So a couple of questions with this: we spoke with someone who said we need a 24v supply in order to jump the genset, and that jumping with a 12 v would cause damage. What would we use for a 24 v supply? And in using the 12 v supply, what gets damaged? That vehicle supplying the 12v, the genset, or both? Also, what would cause the batteries to be dying so quickly? They are brand new batteries. Is it possible that jumping those two times with vehicles has already damaged it?

Lastly, any recommendations on how to set it to run optimally and most efficiently to power our travel trailer?

Thank you for your time and help!

 

[glassk]

Well you have jumped it twice with 12 volts so

 

[Isaac-1]

You have several questions there, so I will try to rephrase them and give some answers, hopefully I will not miss any.

1, The generator is hard to start, this is a common problem with these used military diesel generators, if everything is in good working order, then they are not particularly hard to start, however this is rarely the case by the time they get resold to the civilian market, hard starting can be caused by a number of things, this can include bad / non functioning glow plugs, clogged or out of adjustment diesel injectors, valve lash out of adjustment, timing not set correctly or a combination of the above factors.

2, Can't switch to 3 phase, likely a stuck or broken reconnection switch, some people have had luck getting them unstuck, but if you don't need 3 phase I would not bother. (it is also possible the switch was removed and bypassed for single phase only operation)

3, Bad Hz meter, very common problem, this is often in the transducer which is hard to find and expensive, there is a member here making a drop in digital replacement meter though, or if you want to be cheap buy sub $20 Kill-A-Watt P-4400 plug in meter from any number of places, one advantage to the kill-a-watt is you can plug it in inside to monitor voltage and Hz

4, Battery draining while generator is off, this can be caused by a bad capacitor in the generator charge circuit (you could install a battery disconnect switch if this is a problem), it is also possible that the charging system is not recharging your batteries, see the sticky at the top of this section on how to test your battery charging system.

5, How to jump start a 24V generator, use a vehicle with a 24V electrical system such as a military truck, I know not a very helpful answer, jump starting with a 12V system may work, but does risk burning out the starter, etc. On the positive side these starters tend to be fairly robust. The best thing to do is not to let the batteries run down too low, maybe add a small 24V solar charger to keep them charged up particularly in the winter when they are more prone to discharge

 

[iamironshan]

Thank you, Isaac, for the advice. Hopefully we can get this figured out and keep everything in working order! I believe he said the switch is just broken, but for now that's not a big deal. If we ever get to the point where we need it, we will see if we can get it to work. Do you plug the kill-a-watt into the outlets in the genset itself, or inside the trailer in the outlets?

 

[iamironshan]

Oh, also, one of the big concernes was that we used it last night, then went to turn it on this morning and the batteries were dead. Would that mean there's a higher likelihood of there being a bad capacitor (which I, unfortunately, have no idea what that even is...)? I will also go and check that sticky, and hope that I can understand it!
Thanks again!

 

[Isaac-1]

You can plug the kill-a-watt into any outlet that is powered by the generator, from there you can see the voltage and frequency, it will also show the amps and watts being drawn by anything powered through the kill-a-watt. As to it dying over night, my guess would tend to be more of a battery problem or a charging problem, usually the bad capacitors take a couple of days to drain down otherwise charged batteries.

 

[glassk]

Oh, also, one of the big concernes was that we used it last night, then went to turn it on this morning and the batteries were dead. Would that mean there's a higher likelihood of there being a bad capacitor (which I, unfortunately, have no idea what that even is...)? I will also go and check that sticky, and hope that I can understand it!
Thanks again!

One note to add here is that 2 bolts that tighten the cables onto the batteries were missing, one because it fell off and we lost it, and the other because we took it off so we could go to Ace to get a replacement.

But there is a bright side to the dead-battery issue: The battery may not be dead at all. Many battery problems are caused by dirty and/or loose battery cable connections, bad battery cables or clamps, or a combination of both. The good news is all can be remedied with a little do-it-yourself battery maintenance.

http://www.trucktestdigest.com/TTDfeatures/FeatureCleaningBattery.htm

 

[Rapracing]

A note to add to what Issac-1 said about the hard starting. Are you holding the starter until the oil pressure comes up? If not it will shut right back off.

You need to know what HZ the machine is putting out or you can do damage to appliances, etc. The Kill-A-Watt is an excellent item or as mentioned there is a digital unit available from a member here that could be installed. Also, if I'm not mistaken the 24v charge system on this is not real robust and may take bit to charge the batteries. You could use a charger on them and charge while the generator is running to be sure they are full charged.

 

[iamironshan]

glassk - How big of a problem would this be with brand new batteries? There is no visible corrosion, although I supposed it could have accumulated some dirt.

Rapracing - I just read about watching the oil pressure, next time we try to start it I will pay closer attention to this. Do you happen to know who the member is? Also, regarding the oil pressure, when we have been trying to start it, it sounds just like a vehicle with a dead battery, and just won't turn over. This morning when trying to turn it on, it barely chugged with holding the starter, and then just died.

 

[Chainbreaker]

It sounds like your first order of business is to get your two 12v batteries fully charged. Do you have anywhere you can take them and get them charged (friend's house)? Unless you have a 24V charger to charge the two batteries hooked in series you will need to charge each battery individually with a 12v charger(s). The voltage regulator circuit that determines DC output charge to batteries is a common failure point. There are ways to work around this if yours has failed but you first have to determine if it has failed as mentioned above regarding the sticky on how to check the charging.

Also for safety's sake, how is your unit grounded? Since you have no utility power hookup you probably don't have a driven ground rod tied in to your travel trailer. Normally the MEP unit would be supplied with a 3 section copper ground rod (these are frequently missing) that screws together and is driven into ground and hooked to the gnd stud on lower portion of skid frame just below the control panel . If you don't have a gnd rod supplied with your unit you can purchase a ground rod at a farm store. Usually you will find them in the Electric Fence supplies section.

You should download the PDF for the Operation and Maintenance Technical Manual: www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-5-6115-584-12.pdf

Lastly, what elevation are you located at in Colorado? If at front range altitude starting will be easier; if foothills and above you will probably have to use preheat more and will see more exhaust smoke while engine is warming up. Just remember as noted earlier to not let the start switch return until oil pressure is obtained, could be a good 15+ additional seconds after it first fires up.

 

[iamironshan]

Chainbreaker - We went to our local plumbing and electric supply and got a metal rod (not sure what type?), a copper wire, and a bolt. We put the rod in the ground, and attached the copper wire to the rod, and bolted it to the skid, on the opposite side of the control panel.

I did also look at the sticky, and I'll have to look at our set up to really compute, but I don't believe any of the regulators are marked with a red band? I could be wrong, and could just be something that I looked over.

We are about 7,000 ft. It may be a little higher, may be a little lower, but by no more than 100 ft or so.

 

[Ray70]

I am amazed that you were able at one point to get it started by jumping it off another 12V vehicle. Cranking it with 12 volts is going to be very slow and be difficult to get enough cranking pressure to start it. Disconnect the short wire that connects the 2 batteries together and charge both batteries at 12V or if you have 2 sets of jumper cables you can hook up both of your vehicles ( carefully observe the polarity on all batteries) and crank at 24V by jumping with 2 vehicles in series. Once you get it running check to be sure the generator's charging system is working correctly. Whenever the generator is turned off you may want to disconnect 1 end of the wire that connects the 2 batteries together, or install a disconnect switch or a battery terminal with a disconnect knob on it. This will prevent the batteries from draining if the previously mentioned capacitor is bad.

 

[iamironshan]

Well it looks like we found part, if not all of our problem. We took the batteries to napa to get them fully charged, and they're not keeping a charge. So we are going to take them back where we got them, return them, get new batteries and go from there.

 

[Chainbreaker]

When you get the new batteries and are installing them you should consider a battery disconnect switch. Here is what I did and it works well:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...Disconnect-Crossover-Lead-Idea-for-generators

 

[iamironshan]

Awesome, thanks! Is it reasonably self explanatory on how to put that all together? Looks like it, but I don't know anything about any of this stuff, so unfortunately it takes me a little while to understand. Also, do you think it would be ok to go ahead and install the batteries, and wait until that comes in to put it on? We are planning to go get the batteries in the morning, but if I order something off of amazon it will take a few days to get here.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Awesome, thanks! Is it reasonably self explanatory on how to put that all together? Looks like it, but I don't know anything about any of this stuff, so unfortunately it takes me a little while to understand. Also, do you think it would be ok to go ahead and install the batteries, and wait until that comes in to put it on? We are planning to go get the batteries in the morning, but if I order something off of amazon it will take a few days to get here.

Yes, it is easy peasy to assemble. It replaces the crossover cable (short one that connects the (+) (-) terminals of the two adjacent batteries. Yes, you can go ahead and install your batteries and use your generator without one. The battery disconnect switch just prevents your batteries from slowly being drained by parasitic drain sources (capacitors, panel lights left on, etc.) and a safety factor should a wire's insulation be worn or chewed off by rodents and then short to ground when your not around.

Also, the parts I listed in the linked thread are very common. You should be able to find them at any Auto Parts store. The "Gama" side post battery disconnect is well made and mfg. in U.S.A. and the coated Marine Terminals with studs are also well made; however there are similar parts that should work just as well.