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MEP-002A Failed on it first real test! HELP! (again)!!!

joesco

Member
442
1
18
Location
Hampstead, NH
I am days away from jumping out of my first floor window because of this restoration project. As many of you know, I had many issues earlier this year with the genset and finally got it running. Since then, I had been pulling it out of my shop once per month and running it for about 45 minutes with no load.

Then Irene came through NH a few weeks ago and we lost power at the house. I pullled the genset out of my shop and down to my tarp garage, fired it up, connected it to the house's outside outlet which feeds to the panel to a 50amp dedicated circuit. Threw my interlock switch and I had power back on.

Well, not 5 minutes later the MEP stalled out. It appeared that the governor did not kick in when frig and other appliances required power. That's half the problem. I went and tried to restart the genset and could not get it started. The starter turned, but it would just not build oil pressure and seemed like it wasn't getting fuel.

I waited about 20 minutes and it started up again. Flipped on the breaker and just watched the hertz and RPM's plummet as the house was calling for power. It stalled again and would not start. I pulled out the "reliable" Chinese 3600rpm 5500kw genset and got power to the house.

Since that time, I have found and done the following....

<> Changed both aftermarket WIX fuel filters
<> Jumped the oil sending (low oil shutdown) switch
<> Removed the thermal switch (with the help of Tom) from the block which screws into the cooling fins and found the two contacts to be completed rotted out.
<> Jump that switch's two wires and had to order a replacement from Delks (no one else could help). It has not arrived yet.
<> Read, re-read and read the TM on low speed, high speed and governor rachet settings.
<> Adjusted the points on the lock-out switch (with the help from Tom)

So this morning after trickle charging the batteries for the 100th time, I pulled the unit out and it started up. Using the utility outlet, I plugged in my 1500 watt heater and again, the rpm's began to drop and the governor was not working. It shut down and would not start again for about 15 minutes.

I re-started it and now I am not getting any power at all on my Kill-a-Watt meter. It start to rain hard, so I quite for the day.

A couple of observations.

** When I attempt to re-start the genset after it has run for a while, it just won't build up oil pressure. A buddy who came down thinks it is not getting fuel. We pulled the fuel line from the tank and have good return flow. If I let the genset "cool" down for 15 or 20 minutes, it will re-start. Keep in mind that the thermal switch is current jumped.

** I noticed the governor spring is just below the ratchet adjustment nut. I have tried to adjust that for the TM to correct "droop", but I don't seem to get results. It seems like the spring should sit above that ratchet nut???? Which is it as it is not clear in the TM?

** I also noticed that the IP is extremely hot to the touch after it shuts down, a bit odd or not?

** The little plastic hoop from the spring loaded connecting rod that connects to the IP is cracked and keeps falling off which doesn't help either. May need to find that part also!

LOST, BEYOND HOPE AND NO OTHER IDEAS! May just part it out, sell the trailer and try to re-coup some of my money, never mind the 100's of hours spent debugging this thing!

Suggestions, advice and guidance welcome. Thanks!

PS I called several local diesel mechanics in my area and no one is familiar with these gensets and none have offered to help.

Thanks Guys!
 

Keith_J

Well-known member
3,657
1,313
113
Location
Schertz TX
If the injection pump is excessively hot, that is the problem. The pressure of the fuel multiplied by the volume of flow is energy, an internal leak in the IP will cause that energy to be dissipated as heat. Same thing as a hydraulic power unit if the flow under pressure is allowed to trickle through a slightly open needle valve.

I have the Ambac Model 50 manual if you need it. If the center nut is hot, it is the delivery valve which is leaking. This would limit the injection quantity which limits torque.

You also need the -34. Liberatedmanuals have them for free.


Injection pump documentation can be obtained online from Ambac. http://www.ambac.net/images/9540A.pdf
 
Last edited:

Keith_J

Well-known member
3,657
1,313
113
Location
Schertz TX
Joe, did you have to sow seeds of doubt in my mind over my 002a :shock:? I checked governor and control lever action, the latter was STUCK! And it is a major pain to remove. The governor's spring and centrifugal forces are slight, this lever must move freely.

First, remove the stop solenoid. Then pull the starter interlock. Then remove the governor linkage to the control arm. Then you have to bend the lock tabs on the screws flat. The top screw is difficult, the bottom is nearly impossible. Once both screws are removed, the locking piece comes off and the lever assembly can be pulled. DO NOT LOSE THE COLLAR TAB!!!! Diesel will spill out, the diesel keeps the tab in place since it is precisely fit into a bore.

Mine was nasty, oxidized diesel. A gun cleaning product called Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV works rapidly to clean it, I'm thinking of running it through the injection pump to clean it out once back together.
 

treeguy

New member
605
3
0
Location
Fort One Bay - Cape Cod, MA
Ahhhhh, are your injectors stuck with something so that the IP fuel has no where to go and creates the heat? And upon shut down for a while magic happens and allows the injectors to work for a short time? You can disassemble them and clean them out, just count the turns on the nut that puts on the spring pressure so you can assemble it with the same spring pressure. Just my first thought (esp. if you have good return flow back into the tank).
 

Keith_J

Well-known member
3,657
1,313
113
Location
Schertz TX
No, injectors are fine. The problem is the IP's control collar is binding, preventing the governor from calling for full fuel. Timing is fixed, only injection quantity modulates power.

Being stored for 10 years without operation and using the crappy diesel varnishes the fuel system. And running it at light load doesn't clean the deposits off the IP's piston. If the lever on the IP cannot be moved to the full throttle stop, you will never get full power!
 

joesco

Member
442
1
18
Location
Hampstead, NH
I spoke with another diesel mechanic yesterday and he also said it is not normal for the IP to be hotter than the block and that would cause the unit a major fuel delivery problem during operation and re-starting.

This may account for the fact that I have to wait 15 or 20 minutes before the unit will re-start????????

The shop that sold me the rebuilt IP back earlier this year provided excellent customer service and has already shipped out a replacement!

Cuddo's to JT Pitcher at D&W Diesel 315-253-2324 x125. I will let know how it goes after I get the new IP installed.

Thanks for all suggestions guys!

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Speddmon

Blind squirrel rehabiltator
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
4,640
28
38
Location
Cambridge, Ohio
I spoke with another diesel mechanic yesterday and he also said it is not normal for the IP to be hotter than the block and that would cause the unit a major fuel delivery problem during operation and re-starting.

This may account for the fact that I have to wait 15 or 20 minutes before the unit will re-start????????

The shop that sold me the rebuilt IP back earlier this year provided excellent customer service and has already shipped out a replacement!

Cuddo's to JT Pitcher at D&W Diesel 315-253-2324 x125. I will let know how it goes after I get the new IP installed.

Thanks for all suggestions guys!

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Joe, that sounds like a great repair shop you have had contact with. Please make sure you get the timing correct on this one...LOL:wink:

I sure hope you don't have to order a new button again. Hopefully you'll get lucky and one of the buttons you have will work with the new pump. Also, I just PM'd you with some information about a starting point for your governor. Keep us posted.
 

scrapdaddy

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
409
11
18
Location
Dittmer, Mo.
Sorry to hear you still have troubles, you have certainly paid your dues on this one. I also will be reading along and learning as we go. Good luck!

Ron
 

Keith_J

Well-known member
3,657
1,313
113
Location
Schertz TX
Keith,
What "internals" are there to the governor? Seriously. I don't want to overlook anything on mine.
Jerry
The governor works on centrifugal force (centripetal acceleration, tangential velocity squared divided by radius). Bearings could be dirty.

If the injector pump control arm is near the stop limit screw under no load, the pump has and internal leak. If the exhaust is smoky, the timing is off or the injectors are leaking.

Since injection timing is fixed, these engines should only run between 1600 and 2200 RPM. The timing is too advanced for lower speeds, higher cetane index fuels could cause damage.
 

joesco

Member
442
1
18
Location
Hampstead, NH
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments but this piece of military old iron has beat me and I have decided to throw in the towel on this project, mostly due to health reasons. Once the new pump arrives, I am going to put it up for sale and prefer to sell it whole in the classifieds on SS. When I had it running it had run good, so I don't want to scrap and part-it-out. In any case, before I put the ad up, I just want to list what I have done to the genset since purchased, over $2200.00 into this and I know I will be taking it on the chin!

MEP-002a - 2666 Hours
(1) New (rebuilt) IP (waiting for it to arrive)
(1) Used (working) take-off IP
New Wix Spin-on Fuel Filter / Filter
New Wix Spin-on Fuel Water Separator Filter / Filter
(3) New Fuel Pump Screens
New Spin-on Oil Filter w/ New Filter with Rotella T 30W Oil all of the above at 2666 hours
(1) new Fuel Line
(2) Walmart Batteries
New Air Filter
New Glow Plugs
Used Thermal Switch
New Oil Pressure Switch (not installed)
New DC Voltage Meter (not hooked up)
Trailer includes, almost new tires, bows, cover, tool box with grounding rod, bun adapter, etc.
 

joesco

Member
442
1
18
Location
Hampstead, NH
Guys, I can't thank everyone enough who have helped me through this restoration process, but I have decided to sell and the ad is now up in the Classifieds. I just hope I don't take it on the chin!

I have been a member of SS since 07 and don't plan on leaving as I am hoping to take these funds and buy a Winter truck, an M1009. Thanks again for all the help!
 
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