MEP-002A No Power To Control Panel

[Projectnut]

Last summer I picked up a MEP 002A generator from an estate sale. It had been stored in a tobacco shed for some time. I'm not sure how long it sat, but a least long enough for the fuel to start to gel in the tank. When I brought it home, I drained and cleaned the fuel tank, changed the oil and filter, and put in a couple new batteries. I just ordered a dozen fuel filters from a local farm store.

When I went to start it up there was no power anywhere. Nothing to the control panel, no lights, no noise from the fuel pumps, no clicking of the preheat or any other relays. I did remove the starter to see if it was seized. All was fine and I was able to jump it to crank the engine when I reinstalled it. I would like to get the machine up and running, but so far, I haven't had much luck. It's now sitting in the corner of the garage waiting for the weather to warm enough to go back to work on it.

I have been able to download several operator and maintenance manuals. However not being familiar with some of the descriptive language is a bit of a hinderance.

I would appreciate any information that might assist me in getting this unit running. Thanks in advance.

Attached are a few pictures of the unit including the ID tag:

 

[Scoobyshep]

Make sure the circuit breaker is pressed in. Are you competent with a multi meter? Test voltage from chassis to both sides of the control breaker, should have 24 vdc both sides.

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[Projectnut]

I do have a Fluke 795 multimeter and have used it on countless occasions to diagnose electrical problems. I have checked the circuit breaker and there is no power to either side. I'm somewhat afraid there is a broken wire in one of the looms. There is no evidence of physical abuse or obvious animal intrusion

 

[Dog Breath]

I would check that your two batteries are connected properly, then test your leads on the starter. Your should here the fuel pumps for sure

 

[Scoobyshep]

You indicated you had the starter off, I would double check the connections there. That is where the control power comes from. there is a c plug that could be the issue as well.

 

[rickf]

Have you checked all the wiring (and under the top engine shroud) for rodent damage? Stored in a shed for years is just asking for mouse houses and mouse urine is the worst thing known to man on wires and aluminum. Does a pretty good job on steel also.

 

[Projectnut]

The batteries are (were) connected properly using the original cables. There was power at the main lug where the battery cable connects to the solenoid. I could jump the solenoid to get the starter to crank. As for rodent damage I have removed all shrouds and covers to thoroughly inspect every inch of the harnesses. There were no nests or apparent damage.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Just to clarify... you are getting consistent 24VDC across the two batteries? Sometimes the crossover cable between the 2 batteries + to - can be intermittent if not securely fastened or if corroded.

 

[Projectnut]

Yes, I am consistently getting 24 volts to the starter. I have cleaned all the battery posts and the battery cable connections. I have also cleaned the loop ends of the cables where they attach to the starter and ground to the frame.

 

[Ray70]

Locate the wire on the +stud of the starter. there should be multiple wires on this stud, the battery +, another thick wire leading to the slave plug and a thinner wire that feeds 24+ to one of the terminal blocks inside the control panel.
Make sure it is properly connected to the starter+
Also double check that the starter is wired correctly. It's very easy to reverse the + and - wires on the 002 if you aren't careful.
Use the wiring schematic to find what screw on the terminal block the power feed from the starter connects to and look for power there using your meter.
If nothing, remove the connectors from the back of the control panel and clean / inspect the pins.

 

[rickf]

If you have power at that wire you need to check to be sure the control panel is grounded. I am not sure if the panel is grounded to the frame or if it is remote grounded.

 

[Ray70]

If you have power at that wire you need to check to be sure the control panel is grounded. I am not sure if the panel is grounded to the frame or if it is remote grounded.

There is a ground strap connecting the control cube to the frame, mounted near the wiring connectors ( underneath the control cube )
I think there are also multiple grounds within the harness, also connecting to the terminal block.

 

[Projectnut]

Locate the wire on the +stud of the starter. there should be multiple wires on this stud, the battery +, another thick wire leading to the slave plug and a thinner wire that feeds 24+ to one of the terminal blocks inside the control panel.
Make sure it is properly connected to the starter+
Also double check that the starter is wired correctly. It's very easy to reverse the + and - wires on the 002 if you aren't careful.
Use the wiring schematic to find what screw on the terminal block the power feed from the starter connects to and look for power there using your meter.
If nothing, remove the connectors from the back of the control panel and clean / inspect the pins.

Thanks for the tips on the wire locations. When I removed the starter, I marked the wires to return them to their original spots. It didn't dawn on me that they may be on the wrong terminals. I'll consult the wiring diagram and be sure they are connected properly.

Thanks Again. I hope this cures the problem. It may be a few days before I can get back to the project. I'll report back how things work out.

 

[Projectnut]

It's still a little too cold to start working on the generator. It was down to -7*F a couple days ago and is supposed to go back down to -12*F by tomorrow evening. To add to the mix, we just got another 8" of snow. To pass the time among other things I've been procuring oil, fuel, and air filters as well as fuel/water separator filters.

I have an early 1990'sgenerator with cartridge style filters. Filters are still abundant and for the most part reasonably priced. Even though there are literally dozens of product brands and model numbers that crossover and physically fit I've noticed they are not all of equal construction or filtering capability.

This may be old news to experienced owners, but I was a bit surprised as to the difference in physical size and filtering capacity of many of the so-called crossover filters. As a general statement I'll say those recommended in the military manuals are both the best physical fit and the finest filtering capacity. Most of the crossover brands provide an adequate physical fit but have varying levels of filtration.

One example is the recommended Fram C1125PL fuel filter. It has the tightest internal fit on the inlet tube and is the largest diameter and length filter I was able to find. The other crossover filters were either slightly shorter, smaller in diameter, or had a looser fit on the inlet tube. This filter also had the finest filtering capacity at 5 microns. Other crossover filters had filtering capacities of only 10, 15 and even 20 microns.

This may be an insignificant observation, but I thought I would pass it along.

 

[Tinstar]

I use the Wix filters.

Off the shelf ones are identical to the government surplus.
The surplus filters I’ve bought are also Wix.
I know multiple manufacturers, including Fram, made these for the Army. Just luck of the draw.


I have my MEP-002A in position and ready for the upcoming winter storm headed this way.

I’m sure yours will be running soon
Good luck!

 

[rickf]

Do not get hung up on micron size. Smaller is not always better. If they get too small they can restrict flow and also can clog very quickly. There is a point where particles below a certain size do not cause any issues with the engine. That size varies with the application. Here is a very good article explaining oil filters.
From "Bob the oil guy" forum.


Well I wanted to start a thread on some basics of filtration. As i've read a few threads and seen some interesting questions and replies by some.

For my background go to the thread on the new design of the Super Tech filter.

Automotive car manufacuters do have specifications for the design of the filter. I think it would be stupid to think that they want any old piece of toilet roll put on their engines.

The primary specifications for spin on filter construction are for burst and collapse pressure minimums. The element needs to be of a minimum "weighted average" efficiency and a minimum dirt holding capacity which equates to filter life. The more dirt holding capacity, the longer the life.

The engine manufacturer also determines the oil filter relief valve or by-pass valve settings. NOT the filter manufacturer. So it is critical when some of you motor heads go trying to find larger or other filters to fit your particular vehicle, you stay with the same valve settings.

One of the fun bits of information that consumers try to latch onto and compare filters with is "micron" ratings.

For those who are not familiar with what a micron is....one micron is 39 millionths of an inch. .000039. Or one millionth of a meter.

The lower limit of visibility of the human eye at 20/20 vision is 40 microns. So if you have some powder somewhere and look for one granual, the smallest piece you can see is 40 microns.

Keeping that in mind, All filters remove 1-100 micron pieces of contaminant in the oil. Any filter company who tells you their filter is a certain micron size needs to also tell you how effective they are at removing that size partical. So when someone says their filter is a 5 micron or 8 micron or 15 or 20 or 25 or whatever..unless you know how good a filter is..go back to my original statement..ALL filters remove any size particle.

So how do you know how a good a filter is at removing a certain size particle? Ask the manufacturer on their toll free telephone number. They "should" give you the nominal micron rating.

The nominal rating is equal to 50% efficiency of that particle size and larger that the filter element will remove.

I'll give you an example of what a nominal rating is...
The filter companies use an SAE test whereby they flow fluid through the element and count the particle sizes of contaminant going into the filter via electron microscope from an industry standard test dust ( AC fine test dust). They then count the same size particles downstream after the fluid had gone through the filter media.

So if there are 1000 particles of 20 micron and larger going into the element and 500 come out down stream...you get 50% efficiency. 500 pieces got caught by the element, 500 got through.

Or if you ever see it expressed in written form it will look like this: B20=2.
The test is a Beta test..hence the "B".
20 and larger being the micron size tested.
2 being the answer when you divide 500 into 1000.

Engine manufacturers, as has been stated in some of these threads, worry about certain size particles. Generally those 5 micron to 25. The better a filter is at removing these size particles, the longer the engine life. The sizes 5-25 are chosen because of where the oil flows and the tolerances of the metal parts. For instance the piston versus the cylinder sleeve, around the bearings, etc.

If the tolerance is , as an example 10 microns, then any 5 micron particle will not create wear. It flows through like a BB between the gutters on a bowling alley lane. Neither will a 20 micron particle be able to cause damage. But a 10 micron sized one will.

For those who are into the smaller micron ranges and get hung up on micron sizes under 5 for a motor, your basically wasting your time. And those filter companies who claim a sub-micron element..just laugh at them. Then your getting into the molecular level of the oil additive package ( or so i've been told).

Now that you know how the filter company tests the filter, what does it all mean? As I mentioned earlier typically what you will get is a "Weighted" average efficiency. This is because the filter company tests all particle sizes and expresses how good their element is for all size particles. The higher the weighted average efficiency, the better the media is at removing all particle sizes out of the oil.

btw..you'll never get 100% efficiency. The only way to achieve that is no flow. If oil goes through the element and 1 particle gets through the element,.....it can't be 100% efficient then can it?

For those who want to run with no filter and think there's no harm. Please do oil analysis. I think you'll surprise yourself as to the level of particles floating around in your used oil. So if you'll admit to yourself that there are contaminant particles in your oil, won't you also admit that they must be creating wear in the engine?

You don't have to run a filter on your motor unless you want to void engine warranty if the vehicle is new or you like rebuilding motors..

Not running a filter also shortens oil life because the oil can only hold so many pieces of contaminant in suspension. It also effects the ability of the oil to help disappate heat from the engine. So have at it..don't run a filter..

Now when I said you are basically wasting your time with looking at filter with respect to a certain size particle, i'll explain.

Suppose one filter company says their filter is nominally rated at 20 microns. And another says theirs is nominally rated at 5 microns. Obviously the 5 micron filter is better than the 20. But...when you look at the entire filter construction between the two filters...the can size is the same, so if you have a 5 micron nominal element you would also have shorter filter life versus the 20 micron one. There's only so much filter paper they can pack in the filter canister. So there is a trade off.

The trade off is better filter efficiency versus shorter life. The question you would have is, as the better filter plugs up with contaminant the life shortens quicker. Because as the paper media loads with contaminant, it becomes even more efficient and at the same time more restrictive. This can lead to the restriction opening the relief or by-pass valve and then you are allowing more unfiltered oil downstream of the element. So you have effectively negated what you were trying to achieve.

It's never as simple as it seems...lol.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Excellent writeup.

Here's a few of my thoughts

A lower micron fuel filter is more important than a low micron oil filter. The risk of contamination in fuel is far greater than engine oil.

With duel fuel filters what I do to help spread the life of filters is use 2 different rates filters. For example the lead filter would be 10 micron and the lag filter would be 6. This helps spread the contamination between 2 elements





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