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Mep 016d newbie

Jries

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I just picked up my first surplus get set. It's an MEP016d. The paints in rough shape but over all it appears to be pretty descent with 769 hrs on the clock. When.i got it home I couldn't help but start it up and she came to life with one pull (no electric start on mine)

My questions are how are to guys supPlying power to your homes with these? Did you rig up some outlets, a transfer switch, cords connected to the lugs? What type of wires are you using on the lugs solid or twisted or are there some mil spec ring connectors specifically to use on the lug? Is there a cover for the lugs it kind of scares me having open high amperage terminals on the side that someone could touch. And finally what's this about balancing the load when in a split 120/240 set up (I have a 240 well pump)

Another thing is am I correctly altering the hz by altering engine speed? And what is an ok voltage fluctuation?

Thanks in advance for any and all comments/ help
 

Isaac-1

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Ok, here go a few points: The Mep-016d's are Vietnam era gasoline powered MEP-016a's and MEP-016c's that have been retrofitted with a 1 cylinder Yanmar L70 engine as a life extension program that started in the late 1990's, there is a lot of variation on the quality and components used in the conversions as some were converted by contractors and others by field units, so expect some variation from the book, some /most have starters (they do not have an onboard battery or complete charging systems though and are designed to be jump started with slave cables), some have original belly tanks, some have modern plastic belly tanks, etc..

In my case I have a MEP-701a (Onan diesel powered MEP-016b in an ASK) for standby power at my house, but also have a MEP-016d that I am setting up as a portable/loaner unit for relatives, spare, etc. In my case I have no 240V loads and run in in 120V only mode so as to get the full 3KW output power in a single connection leg, instead of 120/240V split phase mode (household 120/240) where I would have 2 legs of 120V each being half the output rating of the generator (2 legs of 1.5KW each for 120V loads). Note 120/240V mode is not officially supported by these generators, but some have had their wiring modified to support this type of operation (it is a simple extra jumper wire, but adding it must be done carefully as it is not compatible with the voltage reconnection switch (inside the box) in other positions). Balancing 2 legs of 1.5KW is hard to do effectively, and there is a real chance of overloading one leg and burning out the generator if you choose to operate it in this fashion, before doing so I would suggest checking to see if your well pump uses a configurable motor that can run on either 120V or 240V, and rewiring it for 120V if possible.

As to how I have mine connected to the house, I use it primarily to power the shed in my backyard as there is a buried culvert / right of way that crosses between my house and shed in the back yard so running a buried electrical line to the shed is out of the question, and overhead is too expensive. Its secondary use is home backup power, for this duty I have a pair of 20 amp heavy duty extension cords (10/3), one runs from the sheds outdoor outlets to my utility room where I plug in my chest freezer and 8,000 btu window air conditioner, the other cord goes a Reliances controls plug in style transfer panel by my main breaker box, similar to this one 30216A Pro/Tran | Product Details | Reliance Controls Corporation (mine is a OEM discontinued model), so I can power a handful of important circuits around the house (mostly overhead lights with low power CF bulbs, tv, fridge, microwave, gas heat blower motor, etc.). I understand your concern on the lugs on the MEP-016d, the ones on the MEP-016b have a safety cover, and on the MEP-701a that is also inside the ASK housing, I don't know if the spacing is identical to the older MEP-016's though, but it may be possible to retrofit a cover, etc. For connection to the output lugs you always want to use stranded copper wires, preferably ones that are rated MTW due to the vibration, my MEP-016d has a 4 way outlet box with a pair of 20 amp outlets on 25 ft SO cord, but it is also set for 120V only mode.

Your are correct engine speed controls hz, you should set it for about 62 hz and forget it, with full load it should droop to about 60 hz NEVER IDLE one of these generator sets, running below operating speed even for a minute can burn out your voltage regulator, start it at full speed, let it warm up, apply load, remove load, let it cool down and shut down. In general the voltage regulator should hold your voltage within about 5% of target voltage, with short dips when large loads start. You will see some voltage drift with operating temperature which can be fine tuned with the front panel knob, if you see more than about 5% variation then chances are something is wrong with the voltage regulator, oh and don't trust the panel meters, they take a beating, and are often off, if you don't have a high quality multi meter, a cheap option is the Kill-A-Watt P4400 for about $20 it will show output voltage and frequency (note some of their fancier models don't have the frequency function).

Ike
 

Jries

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Ok so just to make sure I'm understanding the 120/240 correctly, you run it in 240 and then use 2 hots and a neutral for 240 and then balance your 120 loads over the seperate hot lugs each producing 120? How "balanced" do they have to be? Has anyone out there made a box to cover the lugs for a little bit of added safety? Like Ike suggested I'm thinking of wiring up on onboard outlet box and using that to supply the power to cords and the house. The convenience outlet wiring is too small and someone even removed the fuses maybe to deter someone from trying to use them.
 

derf

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Outlet box is usually the better way to go with the smaller sets. 3kW will not power much in your home and doesn't generally warrant a tap into the main panel. It probably won't power your larger 240V loads, anyway so it doesn't make sense in most cases to do it. It can be done and has some advantages but in most cases extension cords work fine.
I would install a box as you described with 120V and maybe a 240V receptacle. Do you have 240V loads that you want powered and that the gen can handle? If so then a 240V receptacle is in order. If not then you may be better off setting the gen up for 120V only and not having to worry about balancing the loads. I suggest a small box, possibly enclosing the existing output lugs with a 120V or 120/240V twist lock SO cable whip that has a break out type box on the end with receptacles for whatever you plan to power.

 

derf

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Portable Power Box w/GFCI — 30 Amp, 125/250 Volt | Power Distribution| Northern Tool + Equipment

That on is $250 but you can make something simpler and much cheaper.
You could hard wire a whip by connecting it to the existing output terminals on one end and installing a box or female twist lock connector on the other.

Or, you can just mount a standard 4" square electrical box with two 20A 120V receptacles to the frame somewhere (near the output terminals?)

If you have a 240V well pump or sump pump or window unit then maybe look at feeding the panel. Or, if you have plans to be able to connect a larger generator that would power more 240V stuff and then just being able to use either the larger set or the 3kW, then consider feeding the panel.

If you go to that auction site that rhymes with flea pay and search "generator panel" you can get some ideas of ways to set up your output and possibly find parts and/or a prewried panel that would suit your needs.

 

derf

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This little panel, new, is about $25 shipped. The components and box would probably cost you more than that. It might be just what you are looking for. We aren't allowed to post links to auction sites but if you search "generator control panel" on the above mentioned site you should be able to find this example, and others.





 

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Isaac-1

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Derf, here http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=11-3306&catname=electric is the same panel for less, I have one I bought for this same project idea, then went another way. On the output lug issue, you could always remove them, they have wires with ring connectors on the back side in the control box. As to the load balance question, most likely your generator will output 240V only when set to 240V mode, not household 120/240V split phase (there will be no neutral, just 2 hots), to get a neutral you will likely have to add a jumper wire to the control box. If you do as mentioned above you effectively split your 120V capacity into 2 halves, the result is in effect getting 2 1.5KW generators. Now for some real numbers, on these units 1.5 KW works out (using army math) as about 16 amps per leg. (2 legs of 16 amps at 120V = 3KW), the problem here is that the smaller the effective size of the generator, the smaller the load that is capable of overloading it. Perhaps a real world example would be good here, lets assume you have 3 appliances, a 12 amp vacuum cleaner, a 10 amp hair dryers, and a 8 amp window air conditioner, all total to 30 amps at 120V or under 3 KW with 2 amps to spare if you had a single output leg in 120V only mode. Now take the same load and try to balance it without overloading out of 2 legs of 16 amps each like you would have in 120/240V operation, and you will quickly see it is not possible, as if you put the largest load 12 amps on one leg, (your ok here), then put 8+10=18 amps on the other leg (and your 2 amps over the 16 amp limit there).

Ike
 

derf

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Nice find. I've bought from Surplus Center many times in the past. I have their catalog right here. That panel is indeed on page 2.

BTW, your 016D should have an electric starter, but no battery. There should be a slave receptacle for starting with a jumper wire from a Deuce or other 24V source.

Also, the 701A/016E ASK unit is not as portable as the 016D. That may be a factor in determining whether or not to wire to a panel or make suitable temporary power distribution arrangements.

 

Isaac-1

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To follow up on Derf again (perhaps for future lurkers), if it does have a starter, they can also be jump started on 12V, the starters are series wound, so should not be hurt by the lower voltage, just will not spin as fast. I have tried this on my MEP-016d.

Ike
 

Jries

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There is no starter or plug on mine, in fact there is a block off plate on the bell housing closing the opening where the starter should be. I'm thinking of buying a 12v starter and using a small tab battery to run it but am deterred by the fact there is not a 12v charging circuit.

So is the consensus that I run the gen in 120v mode and then switch to 240v mode when I need to run my well pump? I will be purchasing one of the control panels rather then making a box it's far cheaper.
 

Jries

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There is no starter or plug on mine, in fact there is a block off plate on the bell housing closing the opening where the starter should be. I'm thinking of buying a 12v starter and using a small tab battery to run it but am deterred by the fact there is not a 12v charging circuit.

So is the consensus that I run the gen in 120v mode and then switch to 240v mode when I need to run my well pump? I will be purchasing one of the control panels rather then making a box it's far cheaper.
 

derf

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The Chinese 186 motors are clones of the Yanmars and the starters interchange and are cheaper. I have thought about pulling the starter off my 016D to make it lighter and cheaper to maintain.

If you have a 240V device you will want to run then it would probably best to wire the box for 120V/240V and wire each 120V leg to an outlet. Balance the load by using both 120V outlets and making an effort to use them equally. You will probably only have trouble with unbalanced loads if you put a large load on one leg of the 120V (in 120V/240V configuration) and run it for a long time with the other leg having no load on it.

Most loads are like: Fridge, TV, Window unit. In that case plug your Fridge into one outlet, your Window unit into another, and the TV in with whichever (Fridge or Window unit) uses less power.

If you need to run your well pump (240V) constantly and run some 120V stuff at the same time then you'll have to rethink your usage. Running your pump constantly and a 120V window unit on one leg of the 120 at the same time for a long time might not be wise.
 

Jries

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Do you gouts think that itd be possible to move the lugs into a busbar box? Or would you just hard wire plugs into the system?
 

Isaac-1

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Anything is possible, but why keep the lugs, just disconnect them and wire your new output box directly to the 3 pole breaker.

Ike
 

Jries

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Anything is possible, but why keep the lugs, just disconnect them and wire your new output box directly to the 3 pole breaker.

Ike
Wow I fell dumb now because I never thought of doing that. I'm just going to cap off the 3 phase function since I will never use it.

What's the deal withe the ground wire to the frame that I keep reading about. It goes from L0 to the frame? Im asking because mine doesn't have one
 

Jries

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Thanks again to everyone on this site for all of the help. After reading all the suggestions over and over I think I came up with a good solution. 1 put a control panel on the gen and 2 run it in 240 mode with a transfer switch on dedicated circuits to help load balancing.

What do you guys think about that set up?

Have any of you found a muffler to quiet down these yanmars? We lose power for pretty long stretches a few times a year and the drone of a diesel my sound good to me but my neighbors may feel differently
 

derf

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No practical way to muffle it. Just locate it behind a wall and on the grass if you can. You can build a dog house for it but putting an air cooled thing in a box that is too small is not a good idea.

 

Jries

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Derf,
That's what I figured but thought I'd ask people with far more experience. Then myself. Thanks for the reply
 

Jries

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Derf,
That's what I figured but thought I'd ask people with far more experience. Then myself. Thanks for the reply
 
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