Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

[SasquatchSanta]

Hopefully someone can help me understand an oil analysis report I received today.

I decided to get the analysis mainly because of curiosity. My truck runs fine, has good oil pressure, amble power and doesn't seem to smoke very much once warmed up.

I was curious to see what impact the Minnesota winter weatherr heating problem I was having before I removed the water pump fan and installed the electric fan might be having on the oil. Before I installed the electric fan the truck spent an appreciable amount of time idling at between 100 and 120 degrees and sometimes running down the road at not much over 140 degrees. Since the block wasn't heating up to anything close to normal operating temperatures I was concerned about what it might be happening inside the engine.

Here is the lab report:

Engine: LDT-465
OIL: Shell Rotella T
Miles/Months: 2,000 miles - 18 Months (2 winters - 1 without the electric fan)
Viscosity @ 100 degrees C (cSt): 14.8 (A)

(Numbers Signify Parts Per Million)
Silicon: 17 PPM (A)
Iron: 98 PPM (A)
Chromium: 10 PPM (A)
Aluminum: 14 PPM (B)
Copper: 12 PPM (A)
Lead: 14 PPM (A)
Tin: 0 PPM (A)
Nickel: 1 PPM (A)
Silver: 0 PPM (A)

The (A) Stands for Normal --- No Action Required
(B) Stands for Moderate --- Requires Monitoring (See Aluminum)

There is also a (C) which stands for: High --- Action Required
(D) Severe --- Immediate Action
(X) Pending Failure

Accordng to the the labs A thru X table the only thing that was out of whack was the aluminum.

The Labs comments were: "Suspect moderate cylinder wear"

I don't understand why they singled out aluminum @ 14 when they didn't iron @ 98.

I can't help but wonder if this doesn't have to do with dry starts and cold weather.

Anyway --- as good as the engine runs I don't think it is anything to be concerned about.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[cranetruck]

On one of my reports, Iron is 104 and Cr is 13 and the note says that there may be cylinder wear indicated.
The Aluminum is 16 and Silicon is 7 and the note says that it may be dirt entry.
All depends who does the analysis, I guess....

 

[devilman96]

To elaborate on what Bjorn said... When you fill out your lab paperwork and note your engine type the lab will compare your results with other know results for the engine type. Along with oil type, hours and mileage. Depending on the lab and your specific information that can vary to some extent.

What lab did your test? Where are your soot numbers?

As for metal counts... You cant really compare one specific metal count v/s another, one being higher and one being lower is being considered to be a normal amount of wear.

As the lab said... Monitor it...

I would also change your PM habits... Being that we have spoken a good bit I know what you expect of your truck and how you care for it. 18 months is a LONG TIME to have oil in your truck, being what these motors are and the known rod slinging issues, filtration, etc I would also consider bumping the change interval up to 1000 miles max.

Oil analysis is the way to go and posting the results for a base line / comparison readings is a great thing for the whole membership!!!

 

[cranetruck]

Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

......I would also consider bumping the change interval up to 1000 miles max.....

That may depend on how fast you rack up 1,000 miles. I wouldn't think that it would be necessary on a long trip, changing oil every other day....

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

More Info:

I called the Lab, (Oil Analysis Lab, Inc.) this morning.

They didn't do an infra-red analysis to determine soot, fuel dilution, oxidation, nitration, water%, and anti-freeze% because I ordered the wrong pre-paid kits.

In the future I'm going to make sure these tests are ran. Soot and fuel dilution are of particular concern with a multi-fuel operating in cold weather. I say this because soot and fuel dilution can cancel each other out from a viscosity standpoint.

Fun things to know:

The lab tech said a viscosity of 14.8 for 15/40 oil is perfect. He also said that at 100 PPM Iron the code goes from (A): Normal to (B): Moderate - Monitoring Required. He also said Aluminum PPM goes from (A) to (B) at 11 PPM.

I paid $25.00 for the pre-paid sample kits. When I add the Infra-red test I will be paying $40.00. Does anyone know of a better deal?

Thanks for the input

 

[FreightTrain]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

Check blackstone Labs.They are include just about everything for the $22.50 and they will send you 2 or 3 test kits free.
Aluminum,Chromium,iron,copper,lead,tin,Molybdenum,nickel,manganese,silver,titanium, potassium,boron,silicon,sodium,calcium,magnesium,phosphorus,zinc,barium,plus viscosity,fuel %,Antifreeze %,flashpoint,water,insolubles.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

[devilman96]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

40$... wow... them boys are proud!... You get everything with the Wix test kit and I sell them for $15.97

http://odiron.com/store/index.php?cPath=16

 

[jasonjc]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

WIX has a prepaid kit that you can get at any WIX dealer.

WIX 24077 is for eng oil or transmission or hyd
WIX 24230 is for fuel
WIX 24240 is for coolant
I think I paid around $15.00 at O'Reileys for mine. You do have to paid postage but it was only a few $$

 

[m-35tom]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

aluminum = bearing wear (frequent starts, short trips etc), iron = cylinder wear mostly

 

[WillWagner]

RE: Re: RE: Need Help Understanding An Oil Analysis Report

Before you get worried about your analysis, do this for a baseline. Drain the oil, run it for a 20-30 mile trip with as little idling as possible. Come home, drain it, re fill with new oil and run it for 500 or so miles under your normal operating conditions, take a sample. Continue to run the oil for 1000 mi., then do another sample. The readings should be close...unless you idle it alot. That will give high soot, fuel, chromium, iron, nickel and possibly sodium levels. I agree, 1800 miles is alot for these engines, mine tends to get real black after 700 or so miles, that's why it gets changed at 1000 mile intervals...I think the TM states that too. Remember this though. These engines.. the multi, is an old school design. No bypass, micro glass or fine filtration. They use a paper element. The readings you get from an analysis today is based on the type of filtration used today, not the filtration of 30 years ago.

 

[garp]

oilmsampling

As a heavy equipment field mechanic i will add my 2 cents worth. On an average week I take anyweres from 2 to 50 oil samples a week. Go see your local Caterpillar dealer for oil samples and supplies. The number one problem with samples is that they are taken incorrectly! They will give you valuable info on proper sample taking. Consider adding a sample port in the oil galley on the engine. this is much more accurate than catching oil mid-stream from the pan. particualtes tend to gather in the pan and flow out around the drain stream, producing a false reading. Or a vacuum gun can be used, the bottle is attached to the gun and oil is drawn up via nylon tubing that is used only once. Most dealers will supply you the tubing when you buy a sample if you ask for it. But the best advice is to sample EVERY time, with out fail. This will allow a pattern for your engine, trans or whatever you are sampling to develop. This will allow you to see when a certain item starts to grow. .Plus with Cat samples, soot, fuel dilution and coolant are tested for everytime. Usually to be had for 10-12 bucks at most dealers.. i guess it was more like a quarters worth. Sorry.

 

[Jones]

RE: oilmsampling

Don't remember which components and which trace elements go together but I do know from my years with the RR that it's not worthwhile to get too excited over one test. Review the results from several tests to determine if you've had a spike in the readings or whether some elements just run high. Our locomotives were expected to deliver 1,000,000 miles between majors and all were tested at an on-site lab when they came in after every run. Different elements told the lab guys which components the roundhouse forces needed to check or keep an eye on. Some engines just ran high on certain elements their entire lives.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: oilmsampling

I had no idea that oil should be changed every thousand miles.

I knew the 18 month time frame was pushing it but I "thought" that two-thousand miles was reasonable.

When I changed the oil I installed a set of builder 77's spin on 1970XE 5 micron filters. I would like to think the better filters would allow more time between changes.

For the record, builder 77's filter set-up fit like a glove and only took ten minutes to install.

 

[cranetruck]

RE: oilmsampling

The LO for the deuce calls for "every 3,000 miles or 3 months, whichever occurs first".

 

[FreightTrain]

RE: oilmsampling

Conventional oil breaks down and turns into an acid over time.That is the main reason everyone and there mama put in the owners manuals Xmiles or 3 months.I wouldn't push oil past 6 months of duty.

 

[jasonjc]

RE: oilmsampling

Sounds like I need to get a drum of Rottal.

 

[bottleworks]

Re: RE: oilmsampling

When I changed the oil I installed a set of builder 77's spin on 1970XE 5 micron filters. I would like to think the better filters would allow more time between changes.

Next time you change your filters, consider a set of 1970XD. Each has a built in bypass filter.

 

[devilman96]

RE: Re: RE: oilmsampling

When I changed the oil I installed a set of builder 77's spin on 1970XE 5 micron filters. I would like to think the better filters would allow more time between changes.

Switch to Rotella T 5W40 synthetic...

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

RE: Re: RE: oilmsampling

Can you post a picture of this spin on filter set up, Thanks Scott

 

[jasonjc]

I just got the report back for my new to me M109A3. This is the G.I. oil still in it. They changed it back in '05 by the date on the houseing.