Need some GETT / Applied ECU / 23kw 3 Phase Generator Electrical Help

[gotaconvoy]

Howdy. Last week I picked up an Applied Companies 23kw 3 phase genset / 120k btu ECU trailer. After some basic mechanical fiddling, I got the Perkins diesel running nice. (except I don't think the glow plugs are being energized due to no glow plug light, but it's plenty hot here in TX for now)

However, I'm getting no output from the generator itself. I have TM-52480-23, and have followed the generator load instructions but this problem seems to be in excess of that manual. I should note that when I picked up the trailer, the panel covering the electrical connections on the top of the alternator / genhead was off and the main breaker panel on the inside of the wall is missing. It seems someone before me was trying to diagnose an electrical issue.

Current condition / observations:

Following the load instructions in the TM and on the unit results in no power at the 208 vac output nor either 120 vac receptacle
Mainline breakers are on, as are CB 3, 4, & 5. Not using cold start function.
J1 output switch does nothing; J1 light never illuminates
The electronic control head on the main control panel (Shark 100 Multifunction Power and Energy Meter) does not power on and the display is unenergized
The three LEDs on top of the alternator / genhead are all off
Measuring voltage at the leads coming put of the alternator / genhead results in +/- 3.6 vac between phases and +/- 2 vac phase to neutral. Same observations at the mainline breakers.

To me, it seems I've got an internal issue with the alternator / genhead itself, but admittedly this is not my area of expertise. Anyone dealt with this previously?

Various Trailer Tags:

GETT Trailer Assembly (17v) 1vpw8 (1p) 01-p54234e001
Applied Companies 23kw generator, part # 52480, model # 20RFH33DWLP

Generator identifiers:

On the alternator / genhead: SWP southwest Products / HANCO Generator Systems - Model 20RFH33DWLP
On the other side of the alternator / genhead: Creazzo Vicenza Italia - Type ECO 28-2L/4

Guide me, wise ones.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Good afternoon,

sounds like you have the operating manual might need to find the maintenance manual.

I have never worked on this specific unit but I can offer some basic things to look at. First is field. If the head isnt getting excitatition it wont produce power. I would look there first. Look at the head, do you see 2 small wires ? thats usually the field wiring. follow them back to a point where you can take voltage readings.



What part of florida?

 

[gotaconvoy]

Thanks for the info.

To clarify - here's the operating manual which has wiring diagrams:

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachments/tm-52480-23-generator-pdf.674268/

Page 69, lower left quadrant, I'm looking for the voltage between "Exciter - YELLOW" and "Exciter - Blue"?

Used to be in the keys; in TX now.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Looks like theres 2 excitation windings yellow blue and red red

start wiyh the yellow blue pair and see if theres ever power on startup there. If its just a flash circuit it may only be present for a brief amount of time. I would alos check winding continuity. disconnect from the regulator and determine the resistance between the yellow and blue wire. it should be very low (tm should have specs on the ideal resistance)

 

[kloppk]

Unfortunately the Operations and Maintenance manual has very little info in the Generator Runs but doesn't produce power section.

Yes, Yellow and Blue are the two wires to the exciter from the VR.
The VR is powered from Red and Red.
The VR system relies on "residual magnetism" in the gen head to get the voltage regulation system running.
I'd check to see if there is AC voltage present across Red and Red when the engine is running to see if the residual magnetism is making some AC voltage to get the VR up and running.
Luckily you can by clone VR's for the set. The UVR6.

 

[Scoobyshep]

if it is relying on residual magnetism ( again I have never touched this specific unit) you may be able to flash it to get it going. had this happen to a generator at work, fresh rewind, it didnt have enough magnetism to get the reaction going. My boss thought i was crazy for requesting a piece of wire and 3 9 volt batteries (he was a hell of a mechanical engineer but didnt know jack chit about electrical). Bet him a steak dinner it would work. needless to say my steak was delicious.

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep / kloppk :

Test results:

Motor off, Yellow & Blue disconnected = 10.8 ohms
Motor off, Red & Red disconnected = 1.2 ohms

On startup, Yellow & Blue = While cranking/initially startup .07 vac which trickled down to about .015 vac over the span of 15 seconds running

While running, Red & Red = 3.06 to 3.1 vac and seemed to bounce between the two voltages about twice a second

I should note that the "Reds" appeared to be orange, but that could be from fading. It seems each red I measured was in the correct terminal (one was on top of the yellow [+], the other was on top of a black [2]).

 

[Scoobyshep]

The windings are a believable resistance ( tm should have the acceptable values) voltage is way too low to get the head going.


* how generators work A rotating magnet induces a current. we use an electromagnet to replace a permanent magnet. this way the voltage can be adjusted by changing the magnetic intensity. it needs power to create power. this is done by using the residual magnetic flux in the rotor to start the reaction or by inducing voltage into the excitor coil to start the reaction( usually by battery)


Try this. USE CARE WHEN DOING THIS leave the blue disconnected and use a 9 volt battery yellow to blue to flash the coil. mind your polarity and watch the output voltage as you do it. I would start by very quickly tapping it to battery.

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep

I just want to confirm this is what I'm to do:

Disconnect Blue
Leave yellow hooked up
9v battery - negative to the disconnected blue wire, not the terminal it came from
positive to the still-hooked-up Yellow wire/terminal in short taps only
Watch the output voltage of the main wires out of the alternator (ie phase to phase)

 

[Scoobyshep]

correct (engine needs to be running btw)

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep

Did as instructed; no change in output voltage.

when tapping the positive to the yellow, I was getting some little 9v arcing, so something was definitely happening but it made no difference in output voltage.

 

[Scoobyshep]

you can tap longer or take a 2nd 9v and series them together and try again idea is to start low and slow and go higher as needed dont wanna burn anything

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep

Ah, ok....I was being ultra careful and only did about about 1 minute of very short taps.

I will try again tomorrow with slightly longer taps, slowly working up to full time 9v. If that doesn't do it, I will add another 9v in series and introduce 18 vdc, starting in small taps, working up to full 18 vdc to yellow/blue. Correct?

I just want to make sure I'm not going to burn anything up by troubleshooting incorrectly. Especially something that's a PITA/costly to replace.

I appreciate the guidance.

 

[Scoobyshep]

correct


any time

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep

OK, I tried 9v to blue / yellow in increasingly long taps, working up to full time 9v with no change in output voltage. Ran 2 9v in series and started introducing 18vdc in short taps, working up to full time application of 18vdc between blue / yellow with no change in output voltage.

No matter what voltage I introduced between yellow / blue, output voltage stayed +/- 3.6 vac.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Scoobyshep

OK, I tried 9v to blue / yellow in increasingly long taps, working up to full time 9v with no change in output voltage. Ran 2 9v in series and started introducing 18vdc in short taps, working up to full time application of 18vdc between blue / yellow with no change in output voltage.

No matter what voltage I introduced between yellow / blue, output voltage stayed +/- 3.6 vac.

Ok lets go for 3 batteries, Just to confirm, you do have the engine running correct?

 

[gotaconvoy]

Yes, engine running. Haha.

I will start with short taps of the 27vdc, but if that doesn't work and I work up to full time power, is there a max amount of time I should apply those 27 volts to yellow/blue?

 

[Scoobyshep]

hard to say, looking at the specs of the AVR and it is rated at 5 amps I dont think a 9 volt battery can deliver that kind of current

 

[gotaconvoy]

Scoobyshep

3 9v in series - no change in output voltage. Left full 27 vdc hooked up for at least a minute straight.

it's pulling down about a quarter of an amp between the 3 9v and the yellow/blue if that makes any difference.

Also, the regulator is labeled as UVR 8172 TC if that makes any difference either.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Thats rated at 80 VDC 6 amps. so might have to go higher with the voltage.


The battery draw is .25 amp? mathematically it should be 5 times that.