optimizer long block - hummer 24V or cucv 24v

[richingalveston]

I am purchasing a 6.5 optimizer long block and I am trying to determine if I want to keep the cucv system of try to convert to a hummer serpentine belt system.

I like the cucv set up in the fact there are no additional tensioners or idler's to fail, each device has ins own belt. It is easy to carry the spare belts, keeping spares for the serpentine system my be more complicated.

I want to keep the 24volt and would actually like more electric power than the cucv system and I do not know enough about the hummer serpentine system and how much more electrical power you can get out of the hummer 24V system Vs. cucv.

I am interested in others opinions and ideas. Everything in the drivetrain of my truck is new except the motor so I am going to go ahead and make it all new. I don't care about stock, nothing on the truck is stock and will never be again.

I believe some the hummer alt has a 200 amp 24v option. I can do the inverter option for 12 volt but would actually like to split the system and have one 24v alt and one 12 volt alt with 3 batteries. one for 12 and two for 24v.

I am open to suggestions. I know very little about the hummer stuff.

Thanks
Rich

 

[NDT]

Hummer or HMMWV? I have a pull out Hummer H1 engine with serp if you wish to examine it. The HMMWV serp is different. The Chevy truck 6.5 serp set up is yet another option, it is set up for twin alts from the factory.

 

[richingalveston]

I did not know they had a chevy serp with twin alts. that sounds like it may be the best option but probably not easy to find unless the parts are still available new.

Do you know the water pump rotation. I believe it changes rotation on the H1 set up, do you know if it changes rotation on the stock chevy?

I can purchase the 130 gpm water pump with dual thermostat kit for the serp system, I will search the rest of the parts to see if they can be purchased new. I will also have to find new pulley's for all the two alts and Hydro pump.

Thanks for the info, I am going to keep looking for all the chevy dual alt parts and see if I can put that system together otherwise I will just put the 6.2 stuff on and run with that for a while.

I have some 6.2 parts I may be able to trade for some 6.5 parts if anyone has extra parts laying around.

I am not going to finish the turbo add to my 6.2. I have all the parts but decided I don't want to go through an engine replacement again in a year so I am going to sell/trade what I can from the 6.2 and banks system.

I am buying new optima long block and have to build the 6.5 turbo (db2 pump) from the starting point of the long block.
I will swap my alts, hydro pump and I may keep the banks exhaust manifold but everything else not used on the 6.5 from the 6.2 will be sold or traded.

My 6.2 has new rebuilt IP, new injectors, return lines, water pump, harmonic balancer, fan clutch and glow plugs. Also has sensors for gauges. The engine has just been put back together and has not been fired yet. It ran perfect before starting the turbo add.

Thanks for the info
Rich

 

[NDT]

Finding the Chevy truck 6.5 parts is not difficult, in fact I just bought a residue "97 2500 in Dickinson not a week ago, posted the parts here and promptly sold the dressed 6.5 engine to Barrman which I delivered last Fri! All the serp water pumps are reverse rotation to the best of my knowledge. The twin alt setup was used on ambulances etc. The giant bracket which mounts the A/C compressor on the drivers side also mounts the alternator when so equipped.

 

[richingalveston]

if you run across another one, drop me a line.
I have a 6.2 to trade for parts if anyone is interested.

I will start my search.
Thanks
Rich

 

[Recovry4x4]

Another option is the M1010 setup with a 24 and 12V alt.

 

[richingalveston]

I am considering changing to a true 24v alt on two batteries and a 12 volt on one battery. I however would like to do the serpentine system with two alts. I figure I could adapt a 24v alt to the mount if I had the mount.

getting all the right pulley's will probably be the biggest challenge for the serpentine system.

If I stay with the multibelt system I will still probably change to 24 and 12 volt alts from the stock system.

 

[Barrman]

1996 to 1999 6.5 trucks had the dual thermostat coolant cross over, the HO 130 gallon water pump and as NDT pointed out, the option for dual alternators. Search for 6.5 diesel dual alternator install and you will get all kinds of hits. That was my prime motive behind getting the engine from NDT last week. Plus a factory turbo set up.

However, all the DS4 pumped 6.5 engines had drive by wire and the dual thermostat cross over means you will have to fabricate a throttle cable bracket to run the DB2 IP. I also found a few places online that sell them for a nominal fee.

I have done a few searches but have not really found anything for sure about how to make a CS-130 alternator (What all the civilian serpentine belt set ups use) isolated ground. However, there are lots of threads in the Camaro and Corvette forums about converting those vehicles from SI to CS alternators. So, going from a CS to a CUCV SI should be doable. I just haven't gotten that far yet. I like the 24 volt starter compared to the 12 volt diesel starters and want to do that on the Cowdog project.

Then there is the "dual stat" or "single stat" debate. Kennedy Diesel and SS diesel seem to think the dual thermostat set up with the HO pump is the only way to go and sell everything to make it happen. Heath diesel has a lot of data to say the HO pump with the single thermostat cross over actually moves coolant through the cylinder heads more equal and better. I now have both cross overs and besides knowing the HO pump is what I need, haven't decided which way to go on that yet.


I do not know the HMMWV serpentine system. I do know they did have an alternator on some of them that had a 12 and a 24 output. At least I saw an alternator at Mullins a few years ago that was marked 12V+ and another post had 24V+. Sorry I can't help more on that part.

 

[Skinny]

Can I ask why trying to stick with a hybrid system? Why not just go 24v starting/charging system and run the truck stuff off a 12v powersupply? I would imagine the truck part would draw very little on a 12v source if you changed out the headlights to 24v bulbs and run them off of relays. That way you can just go with a single 24v alternator.

 

[Barrman]

For me, I only want a 24V starter. Everything else being 12 volt is much more practical in my opinion.

I have been on a few MV convoy/trail drives where someone has a 24 volt truck with some kind of "box" giving 12 volts to some things. They break, they short out and then the truck is stuck with lots of expensive things needing replacement.

 

[richingalveston]

I am going for reliability also, that is another reason I considering not doing the serp belt.
you add additional pulleys and bearings that can fail. And of course any single part failure is a major problem and carrying all the extra parts is more difficult.
I think having a separate belt to each device may require more maintenance but is better for reliability and repairing in the field.

I am considering just staying with the multi belt system and if I need more electric power I may consider the 1010 setup.

I plan to have a lot of 12 volt and 24volt stuff on the truck so I don't want an inverter in the system that can fail also.

I don't mind a 24V and 12V separated system but I want to be able to produce both voltages.

Thanks
Ricih

 

[NDT]

I believe the serp system is the new standard in reliability. My Ranger with serp went 360K with no repairs to the serp system, the Chevy I just parted went 340K and everything serp related appeared original. Of course the belt has to be changed at 100K.

 

[richingalveston]

I know it is considered more reliable for long term use, I was just thinking about reliable with regards to several days on the trail. An Idler bearing can go at any time even though it is not probable.

I am also somewhat discouraged by the additional time for parts collection. I don't have the time to scrap a vehicle or even a motor, I pretty much have to find the parts ready to bolt on and with what I am spending now, I can change a water pump and the brackets at a later date.

I am ready to finalize my drive train in my truck so I can get out and play some I have been building it for 4 years. I made a big change in deciding to go with the 6.5 instead of finishing the turbo build on my 6.2. My decision was primarily based on time and durability.

With the setup on my truck I was fairly certain the 6.2 was not going to last long and on a hard trail could go at any time. My gearing uses it at low rpms and I know I was destined for a crank failure. I don't have the time to build another motor and still get to do some type of vacation each year. It is either work on truck for vacation, or go play with truck for vacation and I am trying to do more of the play. Thus I have concluded that putting the 6.2 turbo in the truck is just going to cost me a vacation next year and possibly extend a vacation if it blows up on a trail.

Unless the parts fall in my lap in the near future, I think I am going to stick with as much of the current 6.2 stuff that I can. I can change a water pump and do all of the pulley work in a weekend once the parts are here, but in the interim I can drive the truck.

I have a lot of new parts on my 6.2 and it is going to be available for trades if someone has the parts I need. I also have the banks kit for the 6.2, just not sure what parts I am going to keep.

Thanks for the input and anyone pm me if they are looking to get rid of any of the parts I need.

 

[Skinny]

I hate to say it but this is the classic military truck debacle when it comes to trying to make one work in a civilian life. I am sliding my M1010 running gear under a Suburban and finally just said screw it with the 24v system. I have a matching M1031 and like the 24v system, certainly wouldn't hurt to be able to jump another with a slave but...not enough advantage. I even have a 24v multimount winch that would have been useful but a 12v winch is nearly half the money. At one point I just said it is too costly on integrating that 24v system to have a 24v starter.

The M1010 setup does atleast give you the options of having two Gens and a compressor for air conditioning. That is what I'm using on my Burb. I am using two 12v Gens, one for the truck, and one for house batteries. I did take a long time to commit to that though because I wanted to make the 24v system work.

 

[richingalveston]

I have been able to locate a 94 6.5 turbo motor that is bad, not sure what is bad. I can get motor complete for $500
it looks like the only thing picked from it is the AC compressor. This is not a dual alt truck

I need the intake, water pump plate, IP (core),belt system if it is the right one, might use the manifold and intake hat but have banks. I need fuel lines oil neck, etc.

Can I add the other bracket when I find it for the second alt and possibly use the compressor, can an alt be placed where the compressor is.

Should I be looking for a later year model serpentine system.

I don't plan to spend a ton of time looking for parts but this motor is close and sounds like ok price, I can scrap what I don't need.

If I buy a complete blown up motor for parts what is the best year to get if this is not a good one.

Thanks, just don't know enough about all the 6.5 options.

Rich

 

[richingalveston]

on my search for the right year 6.5 parts motor to buy, the 94 does not look like a bad one to get.

It does not have the smog pump so that bracket is not there and I should not need it. The AC compressor is on the passenger side and single alt is on right. I believe the second alt kit mounts the second alt past first alt on drivers side.

There is a version where alt was on passenger side and from what I have read, if you get those brackets you can run two alts and no compressor. These alt brackets are not for the cucv alternators and the others are fixed mount and smaller so I think it takes some work to get the standard cucv alts into this setup. They have some pretty high amp outputs in this type alt and it appears running two twelve volt ones without an ac compressor would be pretty easy.

I may go ahead and by this motor for the parts I can get even if belt system is not right. My dad offered to break it down for me and save whatever parts I want and then scrap the rest.
From the parts on fleabay, just the intake,oil pan and brackets will cost me more than this motor with shipping.

Still open for opinions and info that would be helpful
Thank you
Rich

 

[richingalveston]

started tearing down the 6.2 getting ready to pull it. I already had inner and outer fenders off so I went ahead and pulled the hood and rest of the front end to get it out of the way. I included the pics of my motor with cross member, manifolds and steering linkage. As I have described, there is very little room to get the cross over from front to back. My high steer tie rod will be parallel with the cross member, the tie rod is about an inch in front of the cross member. they hydro assist cylinder actually goes up into the cross member slightly when the passenger wheel is fully stuffed into the wheel well.

with the right sized elbow, I will be able to have the cross over for the turbo turn down behind the hydro pump and then go towards front of truck and over to other side. The cross over will run just under the main pulley and harmonic balancer. All of the cross over piping will be in front of the axle.

looks like it is 3 weeks before the new motor will be here. I had some spare time so I decided to start pulling mine apart.

I am going to keep all I can from the 6.2 for now. I will have a 6.2 long block for sale with a few extra parts, good motor, good compression, never turbo'd

Rich

 

[richingalveston]

Got a free day on Sunday so I was able to get the 6.2 out of the way and stripped down. I now have time to do some painting and clean up before the 6.5 gets here

 

[corelokt]

If you go duel alts, PM me. I have them and can maybe help save you a lot of time.
I am currently putting a 110 mm tensioner pulley on. Expensive from Amazon. My belt needed a screwdriver to put on. I have a cs144 on the p side, cs130 on the d side. Tensioner is on the d side. If you end up not needing an over size pulley, I have two pulleys and one p side tensioner. Not sure if two cs144 alts changes the belt length.

 

[richingalveston]

When you have serp. system done, please post up all of the info. I will source the parts eventually. I will go with chevy dual alt system when I find it. For now, I have to much to do so I am going to go use the stock cucv system.

My engine is shipping from AMG Nov1 I am supposed to have it by the 7th. I think I am going to spend the time to pull the body off the cab while I build the motor on the stand. I have so many new parts laying around it is ridiculous. I have been collecting parts for over two years now. Once I put the truck back together this time, the only thing not rebuilt or replaced is.........................the glass, vent windows, wiring harness most of the brake lines, hydroboost and master cylinder. That is all I can think of I actually had to think for a while and cannot come up with anything that has not been rebuilt/replaced/repainted/reconditioned.

With all I have done, I have yet to put any new holes in the truck other than moving the cross member back and mounting the ord front cross member and shackle flip. No new holes in the body. I have posted most of my work but not in one thread or album. I have been getting my pics together in one folder so I can sort and post a photo gallery of my build. I have several hundred pictures.

Stay tuned on the build, My work is slowing down and I am getting geared up to start turning some wrenches.

Rich