Questions re: Replacement Track Pads

[NMC_EXP]

I've just retired after 30 years in the business of engineering and manufacturing rubber components. I'm looking for something to do. I like MV's and I like working with rubber. Replacement track pads would be right up my alley.

Questions:

(1) Are replacement track pads for the commonly collected vehicles available?

(2) If so are they NOS or new aftermarket?

(3) Are engineering drawings (prints) and specs for the pads available?

Regards,

Jim

 

[NDT]

Almost all of the common collected vehicles use either the endless band track (halftrack, weasel, Cletrac) or steel track with the rubber molded in (M5 Stuart, M5 High Speed tractor, Sherman). The M113 APC and other more modern AFV's have pads, but there are very few of those in collector hands. Most replacement track out there is gov't surplus. The drawings for Mil-spec parts are for the most part available.

My suggestion is to tap into rubber product markets that are poorly served by overseas mfgrs, such as weatherstripping and molded rubber seals for miltary trucks and Jeeps. There are very unsatified users of these products right now, but there are no US made alternatives. The Jeep cowl gasket comes to mind. More and more, companies such as Midwest Military are having these parts made domestically to serve the collector market.

 

[NMC_EXP]

Almost all of the common collected vehicles use either the endless band track (halftrack, weasel, Cletrac) or steel track with the rubber molded in (M5 Stuart, M5 High Speed tractor, Sherman).

I am not familiar with the "endless band" design. Didn't these vehicles have rubber track shoes/grousers/pads? If so, were individual links replacable?

My suggestion is to tap into rubber product markets that are poorly served by overseas mfgrs, such as weatherstripping and molded rubber seals for miltary trucks and Jeeps. There are very unsatified users of these products right now, but there are no US made alternatives.

Rubber part manufacturing tends to be labor intensive and environmentally "unfriendly" so China and India are getting into it in a big way. Unfortunately, Quality Control ain't in their language. Rubber part quality is extremely process sensitive. A part which is dimensionally perfect and visually looks great can turn out to be garbage once it goes in service.

My experience is with molded (compression, transfer & injection) solid rubber. Never worked with extruded / continuous cured products or foam rubber like weatherstripping.

Regards

Jim

 

[Stalwart]

I have tracks that have the rubber molded in, my pins and bushings last FAR longer than the wear surfaces. As it is, I've had to replace tracks on my Scorpion just because the rubber is no longer protecting the road, I'd love to have the option of having more rubber vulcanized onto them or more rubber added in another fashion. It costs me in the neighborhood of $10-12 a mile from track rubber wear alone and I hate to pay for new tracks and the expensive shipping to the US when the tracks themselves are in great condition.

 

[PorscheTech911]

Almost all of the common collected vehicles use either the endless band track (halftrack, weasel, Cletrac) or steel track with the rubber molded in (M5 Stuart, M5 High Speed tractor, Sherman).

I am not familiar with the "endless band" design. Didn't these vehicles have rubber track shoes/grousers/pads? If so, were individual links replacable?

My suggestion is to tap into rubber product markets that are poorly served by overseas mfgrs, such as weatherstripping and molded rubber seals for miltary trucks and Jeeps. There are very unsatified users of these products right now, but there are no US made alternatives.

Rubber part manufacturing tends to be labor intensive and environmentally "unfriendly" so China and India are getting into it in a big way. Unfortunately, Quality Control ain't in their language. Rubber part quality is extremely process sensitive. A part which is dimensionally perfect and visually looks great can turn out to be garbage once it goes in service.

My experience is with molded (compression, transfer & injection) solid rubber. Never worked with extruded / continuous cured products or foam rubber like weatherstripping.

Regards

Jim

The endless band he is referring to is basically a large rubber band like you use to keep posters rolled up. They have no replaceable links, just like on a skid steer. Radmeister.com has products like the endless band track.

My suggestion would be to see if there is a way to make track pads for vehicles that did not originally come with them. Most ComBloc countries used only steel tracks and because of that they tear up the road pretty bad. The low price and ease of import for a ComBloc vehicle makes them popular, and being able to get rubber pads would be a big plus for some people.

Just my

PT911

 

[NMC_EXP]

I have tracks that have the rubber molded in, my pins and bushings last FAR longer than the wear surfaces. As it is, I've had to replace tracks on my Scorpion just because the rubber is no longer protecting the road, I'd love to have the option of having more rubber vulcanized onto them or more rubber added in another fashion. It costs me in the neighborhood of $10-12 a mile from track rubber wear alone and I hate to pay for new tracks and the expensive shipping to the US when the tracks themselves are in great condition.

I just read an older govt report on T-142 (M-60) track pad testing. They were getting an average life of 2000 miles on pavement and 900 miles offroad at the Yuma proving grounds. Sounded like the main failure mode was cutting and chunking rather than wear.

I know of two ways to remove rubber bonded to a metal substrate: (1) burn it which will not make the neighbors and EPA happy. Will ruin the metallurgy of the substrate as well. (2) Dip the assembly in liquid nitrogen then whack the rubber with a hammer. The rubber will shatter like glass.

I do not think any non-vulcanizable rubber such as castable urethane would have a chance of working for this application.

Regards

Jim

 

[NMC_EXP]

The endless band he is referring to is basically a large rubber band like you use to keep posters rolled up. They have no replaceable links, just like on a skid steer. Radmeister.com has products like the endless band track.

My suggestion would be to see if there is a way to make track pads for vehicles that did not originally come with them. Most ComBloc countries used only steel tracks and because of that they tear up the road pretty bad. The low price and ease of import for a ComBloc vehicle makes them popular, and being able to get rubber pads would be a big plus for some people.

Just my

PT911

I've never eyeballed Soviet track up close. Is it built such that a replacable pad could be bolted on?

At Caterpillar we made add on rubber grousers for use on D6 and D7 track type tractors used for agricultural apps. these bolted on the existing track shoes and stood higher than the grouser bars on the track shoes. Allowed the tractor to be roaded but still had good traction in the dirt.

Max road speed for Cats was only about 7 mph though.

They have no replaceable links

So they probably had a master link so the track could be split and the whole track chain replaced?

Regards

Jim

 

[kcimb]

I just read an older govt report on T-142 (M-60) track pad testing. They were getting an average life of 2000 miles on pavement and 900 miles offroad at the Yuma proving grounds. Sounded like the main failure mode was cutting and chunking rather than wear.

I know of two ways to remove rubber bonded to a metal substrate: (1) burn it which will not make the neighbors and EPA happy. Will ruin the metallurgy of the substrate as well. (2) Dip the assembly in liquid nitrogen then whack the rubber with a hammer. The rubber will shatter like glass.

I do not think any non-vulcanizable rubber such as castable urethane would have a chance of working for this application.

Regards

Jim

Also destroys the bearing underneath and causes any/all lubrication to exit the pin housing.

 

[Stalwart]

Every military tracked vehicle with track segments (that I've seen) are replaceable one at a time in the field unlike all the earth moving equipment I've worked on that did have a master pin and the segments had to be pressed in and out with specalized equipment.

Regarding the lifetime of tracks, my Scorpion only gets 500-600 miles on asphalt before the pads allow metal contact with the road. Wear is not from chunking but abrasion, chunking mainly occurs with rocks and the like off road.

 

[dittle]

Would have to agree with Stalwart on the chunking surfaces statement. Last November I replaced all the pads on a M60A3 at the museum and the tank is driven primarily on gravel and we are having some chuncks disappear. Minus all the rubber that was burnt off the tracks while moving other tanks around on the pavement (yes it was cool to watch a M60A3 spin both tracks at the same time and not move) all of the wear on these pads have come from the gravel (and cars I have crushed).

 

[WillWagner]

As for the 113 variants, the pads are also changeable. There are two different track designs for them. The early style is hard to find. All of the ones out here at the Museum are early style. and some are in need of replacement. What do you think it would cost to make replacement pads? If you need a sample, I think I can get one to you...or you could come out here

 

[dgrev]

Wil

I have T130 pads NOS, please email at dgrev@iinet.net.au

Regards
Doug

 

[csmith0567]

New here and i see this is an older thread, but has anyone come up with tracks and pads for a 113? I need an extra set

 

[indy4x4fab]

New here and i see this is an older thread, but has anyone come up with tracks and pads for a 113? I need an extra set

I have a few track links / pad I'm willing to part with p.m. if your interested.

 

[doghead]

Do not cross-post (rule).

Do not post want ads in the regular forums.

I'll leave this post up, but the other thread is going away.

 

[Steve Greenberg]

Track Pads

Jim,
I have been testing some bolt on track pads for my M3A1 Stuart tank. A friend in Ohio came up with an idea to make a bolt on track pad. He has molded rubber to a steel "subframe". They are split down the center line so the 2 halves together around the track pins and links with 2 bolts from the inside pad. The outside pad has fixed nuts welded inside the subframe. So far the rubber we have been testing has not held up too well, but we have tested just 1 pad at a time. That is probably not a very good way to test the rubber because the 1 new track pad is sticking up higher that the others and will take a great deal of abuse. The batch we are working on now has chopped kevlar in the rubber it to help keep the rubber from chunking. We are going to make up 4 or 5 pads and test them on 1 track. Here are some photos of the track pads we have already ran. Due to the bad ecomony and lack of extra funds this project has been moving very slowly! What do you think???
Steve