Registering for Historic plates in MD

[Samford and son]

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get a five ton M923A2 registered in MD after purchase? The DMV refuses to give a title because does not meet Federal emissions and safety regs. I cannot convince them this is not commercial and therefore does not apply. This is new to me for a historic tag.Thanks

 

[porkysplace]

Welcome to SS.
Here is some reading for you .
[h=1]Maryland tags,title,registration[/h]
[h=1]Maryland MV owners are in trouble[/h]

 

[Lionel]

Go to a different branch. Had great difficulty at the first branch I went to over a duplicate six digit number being registered in the past to a trailer (no longer registered). Went to GB and they never even gave it a second look. In and out in 30 minutes with historic tags.

 

[Samford and son]

Lionel,
Thanks
I went to Elkton and they created a mess with the "military" ID number and therefore will not give me a title to register.
I have contacted Glen Burnie but they have not responded. I am convinced this is because of the weight but no where in the regs does this appear saying no- I have copied and collected all the documents to prove otherwise but now it is an international crisis.
What you mentioned is what I had anticipated.

 

[Lionel]

I don't know I'd call ahead. Calls seem to stir attention, especially when they get bounced around to supervisors. Try again at Belair maybe.

 

[Lionel]

From my experience, one branch does not know what the other is doing anyway.

 

[Samford and son]

Evidently I need to prove that someone else in MD has historic plates on a M925A2 truck- Evidentually this is not possible even thought he application clearly has the check off box and I have read every COMAR and CFR- none of which appear to apply towards this truck. So hopefully I will get to someone high enough monday to resolve this error.

 

[grendel]

Easy, register it in NH as an Antique and take the NH reg to shove it up MD's tushy.

 

[Samford and son]

truck is presently in TX and I am exploring same thought. That said- discussing with a friend own there mVA is an issue no matter what state one is in- I believe Lionel has the correct idea. learn from previous mistakes and try elsewhere with a better version.
thanks

 

[Scrounger]

All I can say is you must have encountered one of the “bright” ones. I met one of them when I went to title, register and tag an M54A2. The eighteen-digit vin number confused the bright one behind the counter, most vehicles have a seventeen-digit number. After showing the data plate off the dash all was well for the bright one.
I have an M923A2, M931A2, M818, M816 the aforementioned M54A2 and some other stuff tagged here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland. As long as the vehicle is over twenty-five years old you should have no problem tagging it in Maryland. It used to be twenty, however because of a fool tagging a dump truck as historic and using it commercially they raised the age to twenty-five for vehicles over 10,000 lbs.
All you should need for a title is the current title. To tag and title. You will need the current title, proof of insurance, and the form that they have at the MVA to tag a vehicle as historic. It is self-explanatory. The simplified explanation is that it is not to be used as a daily driver. And you and I know there are thousands of historic tagged vehicles in Maryland used daily.
If one MVA can’t figure it out use another. Just make sure the numbers on the forms are all the same.

 

[Samford and son]

Issue is that it is still untitled- the truck paperwork is from the government saying that it is surplus sold. The "bright" one would not issue a title- thereby suggesting it was mine reinforced, did not have proper safety features, and it would not pass federal emissions. Somewhere in the translation it was faxed to Glen Burnie, of which now Elkton is saying no to anything.

It is a troop transport. aka flatbed truck. The turmoil in the past twenty four hours additionally suggested that Hummers are no longer tagged.

My conclusion of logic, probably because I pay taxes - is that no vehicle military meets fed CFR specs for safety, emissions etc. therefore no vehicle with a military serial number will meet federal CFR regs about emissions safety etc. Therefore, no military vehicle can be titled in MD.

sounds simple- well- not so when trying to explain to MVA that cannot read the law- because a historic class L vehicle is not considered a vehicle and therefore is not held to anything with the feds. with your above mentioned age of 25 years, the idea of minimal miles, non-commercial use- and some "bright" one determining it is too big (at 31K gvwr) for the road- I dont know- will see Monday- i am probably screwed for putting this on the forum. All I want to do is be legal for my hobby, have fun going to parades with the kids, relive my younger years of driving said truck when serving my country while the beginning of the exasperating MVA telephone tree discusses immigration policies......

 

[MDdeuce]

I titled and tagged my 1971 M35A2 at the Bel Air MVA office ~2yrs ago. They were a bit confused about it, however I had an existing PA title and the past owner titled it with the registration number appended to the s/n so it had the "proper" number of digits so I did not have too much of a fight. About 30min later I had a new title, registration and tags.

Also with respect to your safety/emissions/GVW comments CFR, COMAR and MD code are on your side. In accordance with 49 CFR 390.5 (FMCSA) a large MV (or any large vehicle) with a GVWR >10,000lbs is not considered a CMV unless it is used for interstate for-hire activities, and therefore 49 CFR 390.3 (FMCSR) does not apply. Additionally, COMAR 11.21.01.04.b.3 states that MD simply adopts FMCSA's definition of a CMV and again a large MV would not be considered a CMV unless it was used for commercial for-hire activities. The annotated code of MD 13-936.2 expressly permits vehicles with a GVW >10,000lbs to be registered as class L (historic), and 13-396.2(g) states that class L vehicles are only required to have equipment (including safety equipment) that they were originally manufactured with. 13-936.2(h)1 also exempts class L vehicles from any periodic inspections of equipment or emissions controls.

Given the above, meeting safety and emission requirements is a non-issue if you register as historic, and you can register as historic as a M923A2 is not considered a CMV if only used for personal, not for-hire activities. Hopefully this helps your plight.

 

[Samford and son]

MDdeuce,
Thanks- I have concluded same and you give me a bit of confidence that this issue is the result of one person not listening to what I said but instead deciding this is a going commercial.
I assume the one issue still is I do not yet have a VIN number- which I assume from my research should be a simple title issue and not a registration issue.

Other concern mentioned on past Steel Soldiers threads the MD state has been cranking down he screws on historic L class and so I am anticipating that I have not found some obscure changer that did happen in the past two years.

 

[MDdeuce]

MD has been cracking down. A few years ago they broke class L in two categories GVWR > 10,000lbs and GVWR < 10,000lbs, which has implications as there are several laws/regulations that are based on "registered GVWR", not actual GVW or GVWR. Used to be that any class L vehicle had a registered GVWR of "0 N/A". For example if you are registered with a GVWR > 10,000lbs you are required to carry safety equipment (triangles, flares, etc) (22-407(a)) and also display US DOT numbers (22-404.3). However, even with the screws turning I believe my previous post is still accurate and your M923A2 is still not a CMV and exempt from safety and emissions standards.

I also believe that MVA should accept a non-standard VIN, but you will need a VIN inspection completed by the state police. The trooper will likely want to see the data plate as well as the stamped s/n. I'm not sure where it is stamped on a M923, on a M35 is is on the driver frame rail just forward of the front axle.