Spool for rear axle...need your advice

[JohnnyReb]

OK fellas, put your tech hats on and pitch in.........


If I bought a spool from Ouverson and installed in rear tandem; installed double splined rear axle and a lockout hub; then would I have a rear end that I could disengage a rear drive axle for the road and then engage a locked rear drive unit for offroad work? :hop: Would the spool require that I install two double splined axles and two lockouts?

Appreciate any input

Robb

 

[JohnnyReb]

Addendum to post:

If I only need one double splined axle($163.00), one spool($275.00), and one selectro($300.00, hope to sell the other), then I would have a rear setup with a locker for 1K.... Not a bad deal when compared to detroit locker which do not provide advantage of disengaging the rear drive for street use...

What is wrong with this theory?

 

[Red Neck]

I would think it would not turn to well, the locker unlocks for turns.

 

[rdixiemiller]

You would probably want 2 hubs. With a spool, you would still have full torque going to the stock axle. It would steer and drive like it does now, but put all the strain on the stock axle.
You could spool both axles and run 3 selectros, on the highway you would be a 1X6. Probably not a good setup either.
I would look at 2 Selectros and 2 double splined axles. You would probably have to jack up the rear wheels to get the hubs unlocked.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Hey Robert:

Think I would have to jack up the rear to unlock because of the tension?

If this is the case, then wouldn't I have a similiar issue when I unlock at least one of the selectros on the front? As a fact, I have had to move the truck backwards or forwards on occasion to take tension off the front drive to unlock the hub. Think I would still have a difficulty if I made sure I was not in a turn?

I appreciate your consideration; don't want to spend the money until reasonably sure that it will work.....

Thanks

Robb

 

[rdixiemiller]

Robb
What year is your truck? If you are running an air shift, you shouldn't have any issues with front hub unlock. As long as the front drive is disengaged, there should be no tension on the hubs. As for the rears, just take an old 4X4, lock in the hubs, put it in 4wd. and get on pavement. You cannot unlock the hubs because of the tension (wind up) in the driveline. Often, you will have to back up to get the t-case to shift out of 4wd. If you jack up one wheel, you will see it turn 1/4-1/2 a turn as the strain is released. If you have a sprag t-case, then Selectros don't really help at all, and may be a bad thing.

 

[spicergear]

Johnny Reb- Why not put a locker in the forward tandem, then a double spline shaft and single Selectro on the STILL open rear tandem? That way you can unlock that hub and not be still pushing one axle as it would be if it had a locker or spool. You would eliminate some handling issues by not having the rear tandem pushing all the time AND you would be driving on the front tandem and have a locker in it.


Red Neck- The Detroit lockers do not unlock for turns. They operate on a power-in principle. ANYTIME you have input from the driveshaft going in any forward gears or reverse...ANY driven input from the driveshaft into the Rockwell's chunk will make the lockers lock. They will unlock if you let off the gas and the input then is shifted from driveshaft to axle as the axle now is backspinning everything and you're compression braking. A Detroit can be snapped loose if you have one side of the axle jacked up. Just give it a good snap in one direction and you'll be able to spin the tire with just a slight clicking. Spin the driveshaft once and she'll lock up tighter than...um, something really tight.

 

[Rattlehead]

Spicergear or anyone else, what do you think of putting a Detroit locker in the front if you have an airshift t/case? Someday I want a locker in at least one of these 3 axles and was leading towards the frontmost rear axle. Of course there would be more traction/pulling benefit if the front wheels were locked, but I was worried of how it would affect handling when not in 6x6 mode (for example, turns on wet pavement, gravel, etc). However, thinking about that power-in principle, if the airshift were disengaged, would the locker stay in the unlocked position at all times?

Its too bad the military didn't design these trucks to have air lockers in all 3 axles on 3 separate switches, and a tandem axle disconnect, too!

 

[JohnnyReb]

Whoa! Lots of questions and info...but I like it [^]


Robert: Have a airshift front axle, but still have to rock the truck on occasion to be able to unlock selectros(even after disengaging airshift). However, I put this truck in some serious binds by climbing up a steep grade with 10k# in bed.



Spicergear: I like the idea of a Det. Locker in the forward tandem with a lockout hub and double splined axle in rear. Makes alot of sense.



Rattlehead: I probably would not put a locker in the front axle. I have driven several vehicles offroad and a locked front will keep you from turning if your front end is sliding. Further, both wheels pulling on the front will CAUSE you to slide; especially on a sloped surface. The front end of the deuce is just too heavy to control. I sometimes have to disengage the front drive because one pulling wheel will make it walk side ways without turning.



Fella's: I think I am leaning away from the spool. Do you know what the perfect setup would be?? (I will tell you!) To have airshift lockers in all 3 axles! :yeah:

I have driven offroad vehicles with air-select lockers and it is sweet. If the front end walks; turn off the locker. If the rear end needs to slide downhill because you are on too steep a grade and are in danger of tipping; turn off the rear locker.



The major drawback to installing air shift lockers in most vehicles(other than the cost!) is the necessity of installing an air system. Hey, We have free and abundant air



With the right tires and airshift lockers, a deuce would be a very capable offroad machine....

 

[spicergear]

Rattlehead you wrote: ...uh, that stuff two posts up about the front detroit and airshift case...heh,heh. The "power-in principle" that I mentioned seems to work, in my experience, with a pretty decent amout of input. Follow me here...when the driveshaft is spinning and the differential is pushing the truck then that's a decent amount of input and thus the Detroit will lock and power both axle shafts. When lifting off the gas/fuel pedal and engine braking to slow down, that too is a decent amount of input...but that input is FROM the axle shafts to the driveshaft and that will generally open the Detroit. You bring up the airshift front axle and when disengaged would be pushing the driveshaft with the input from the axle shafts so your thinking it may cause the Detroit to run open and not be any hassle. In my experience just backspinning the driveshaft isn't enough to keep the Detroit open all the time so you'll still get real weird handling and steering characteristics. I hate to say it as I know it makes a $450 investment in the locker into a grand, I'd throw on Selectros for the front with a Detroit.

On Selectos...It's quite seldom that I'll have both sides be able to be unlocked without having to rock or back up my truck. No real big deal though...to me anyway.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Spicergear: I agree. I would not want to have a detroit in the front without selectros. Still think air lockers would be perfect for our trucks; they work great on smaller apps.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Short of installing airlockers, the Detroit in the fwd rear axle and a single lockout on the rear would be best. Even though in theory the Detroit in a front drive alxe is invisible when not under power it will toss in a few odditys here and there so I would stay away from it without lockouts. By doing the Detroit / Lockout thing you've only added about $125 to your costs. White Owl has complete rear axle with airlocks for sale. Don't know if they have any fronts though, they didn't before. When I get home I'll tell the story of getting stuck on wet blacktop on about a 1% grade using just one driving axle.

 

[ken]

Jreb i'm assuming you use your truck off road like me. If you plan on going through hub deep water you will fill them with water. The selectro's are NOT WATERTIGHT! A while ago someone posted a new style of lockouts that i'll probally try. The selectro's function well and seem to be quite strong, But for my needs they are big paper weights!!

 

[JohnnyReb]

Hey Ken: Thanks for the advice; I had heard the Selectros were not watertight, so I have avoided wading the deuce! Actually, in my type of construction, I don't have the issue of water crossings. However, if I did recreational offroading then I would consider it a drawback. Keep us informed on any changes which provide for a watertight setup. Who knows, dunking the deuce could be necessary on one of these jobs!!

 

[rdixiemiller]

I think Cranetruck knows of an air locker kit that was on some Deuces that went to Norway? I believe all 3 axles were set up with them, and a ROPS was installed behind the cab.

 

[spicergear]

Ouverson Engineering is the other manufacturer of the Lockouts. He has two grades of alloy they're made of too. Good stuff, heck of a nice guy! Seen some of his stuff...like in my hands...really nice craftsmanship! Check his website.

 

[cranetruck]

Robert, that would be the M621 6x6 singled out with 1100's.
I have lost my contact over there, but Kenny in FL may have further info on availability of the axles. I got my speedo adapter from Norway.

 

[Recovry4x4]

White Owl had 4 new rears with airlocks from the 621 series trucks when I last inquired. That was years ago. I've heard that they have all the existing inventory including the air switches for the dash. Basically it's a 3 gang air switch just like our front axle engage but one lever locks the transfer, one locks the front drive axle and the other locks both rear drive axles together. Used axles area available in Norway but are around $600 US. A call to White Owl will confirm what they have left. I do know of one other rear but I'm trying to keep it a secret untill I have the cash! These lockers are different than what you expect in the fact that they lock outside the carrier, not inside. I've got pics but need to find them.