welding on a CUCV / CARC

[Assel]

So finally I got the possibility to buy a decent MIG welder (its old, but I tried it in the "shop" of the guy I bought it from, its doing really nice welds & everything works as it should) and I paid just a "few" bucks and got even a full gas bottle with it! ..So nothing can stop me from doin the bodywork my CUCV needs...



So now my questions are : how hazardous is it really to weld on CARC? some say its not more than usual car paint, some recommend a full ABC protective suit ... When grinding/sanding I use a charcoal filtermask and the clothes get washed twice, but with the welding helmet on I have no respiratory protection... Of course will I avoid the fumes, but if I accidentally inhale it what will it do to me?

Any information about welding on CARC or on a CUCV is appreciated!

Thanks

 

[98G]

N95 mask to keep particulates out.

Well ventilated area to minimize exposure to the rest, except this is problematic since it'll blown your shielding gas away.

Using MIG on CARC painted surfaces will require lots of prep work. MIG requires a clean surface to work with. When I weld CARCed steel, I typically make a first pass with 6010 rod to burn much of it off, then wire brush, then final pass. (I realize that isn't an option on the thin stuff you're working with).

 

[cucvrus]

This little tool is very handy to get into the seams and clean out all the paint and rust. I just wear a particle mask. 80 grit on a DA sander works well also. But I want to let you know CARC paint is very abrasive and it will wear a 5" sanding disc out in less then a minute. Also the 2" Roloc grinding disc's are an awesome tool for that body woork you have ahead of you. I have been brazing the panels on. Old school. Good Luck.

 

[Assel]

Well I have a replacement "weld in" part so I just have to cut the bad area out & weld the new one in, will 2" of clean metal to the paint be enough or how much space should be sanded ? I think I will weld outside when its not windy, or near to the door with both open in the garage, that should be "ventilated" enough?

 

[cucvrus]

You will be fine. Check out my Easter find M1008 I just completed replacing the rockers and cab corners and have it ready for primer. Moving right along.

 

[iacucv]

Might be worth your time to look into gluing the panels on. No warping issues and if properly prepped it will never come apart. I was very skeptical of gluing on panels when I first started doing bodywork, but it is a good system in many areas. It also leaves your seams nearly impervious to rust, since they are completely filled with glue to seal any bare metal. There are places I much prefer a good old fashioned weld, many times I will glue and in high stress areas I will do some spot welds as well. I don't like the fusor brand, the smell messes with my throat. I do like the Upol products, a product rep told me they are/were using it to glue together helicopter blades.

All that said, when I tackle my floor pans and rockers, I will likely weld the outer rockers on. The rest will probably be glued, but that might change as I go along. I will definitely be using glue though.

 

[ridenby]

Do you have a link to the glue?

 

[Jozseph]

FWIW from quick search;

"CARC Paint

CARC (Chemical Agent Resistant Coating) is a paint used on military vehicles to make metal surfaces highly resistant to corrosion and penetration of chemical agents.
Inhaling CARC during the painting and drying process can be harmful. Dry CARC poses no hazards, except during welding or sanding."

"Occupational Safety and Health Guidance"

"Tab E provides a detailed discussion of safety and health requirements for CARC painting operations, including Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) requirements, as well as military guidance for conducting CARC paint operations. The tab also includes a discussion of material safety data sheets and the hazard communication program. A direct comparison of the exposures during the Gulf War to existing standards is theoretical since no workplace sampling or measurements were taken during the war. These standards are discussed in detail in Tab E and in the applicable cited references, but the most important aspect of this discussion is that there were no measurements taken during the Gulf War for direct comparison. Obviously, this has hampered retrospective efforts to evaluate the frequency, intensity, and duration of exposures, and their subsequent medical or health effects.
Nevertheless, two conclusions can be drawn. First, current Army and federal occupational and safety directives require the use of personal protective equipment, including respiratory protection, during polyurethane (CARC) spray painting operations. Second, based on experience and professional judgment of the health and safety professionals monitoring the CARC painting operations in-theater, unprotected personnel who were spray painting CARC in the conditions documented in the Gulf were exposed to potentially hazardous conditions."


Review;
https://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC Resource Library/CARC_Paint_37-011-0313.pdf

And;
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/carc_paint_ii/carc_paint_ii_s03.htm

 

[Assel]

for some reason I cant open that Link, I just wanted to hear actual experiences ... I did a research for myself aswell

And for gluing: If it can glue helicopter blades together I think its way more hazardous than CARC ..that must be serious stuff. I think I´d rather stick with the welder... (I like welding as a hobby, Glue not so much)

 

[iacucv]

Assel, it is messy if you're not careful, but fairly non toxic in the eyes of a body guy. A tip, wear 2 pairs of latex or nitrile gloves. The first is sure to get glue on it. When you have the dirty work done strip the first pair, do your clean up areas with the second pair. The biggest benefit of the glue is there is no warping from welding heat, and there is no bare metal between the seams to rust. Think of it like a super duty polymer epoxy, 2 part of course. Check with local body shops or auto body/auto paint supply vendors. Like I said, I love to weld certain parts in.... But some places glue is the better option. Normally on restorations I prefer metal to metal, but in rust prone areas glue is the better repair for longevity. This is a situational solution. One size does not fit all.

 

[Assel]

super duty 2 component epoxy is what I expected...and I really dont like it, the ones they sell around here are really nasty + you get dizzy, when you smell it its already too late ... I once helped a friend repair an inner fender with epoxy & fibreglass mats...we decided next time we rather get metal

well one of the older guys from the quarry I work in told me to "tack weld" body parts so they wont warp(and to take time, not to rush it). He is our "welder" so I think I can trust him. But I still appreciate every info I can get, Im 23 and this will be the first vehicle to weld on for me ..I´m familiar with welding but never did a vehicle yet. And experience is something you cant buy, and also there is no answer if you dont ask.

 

[Tinstar]

There are structural adhesives that when fully cured are stronger that the metal.
Helicopter main and tail rotors have been using these for years with extremely good results.
Quite a few other areas in the aircraft also use it.

Most are easy to work with and only a few have the toxic smell that overwhelms the room.
I've watched the guys in the blade repair shop use it and didn't need a mask.

There are of course different ones for steel and aluminum.
I used the aluminum adhesive to mount the Cummins metal logo the engine.
You know the ones that are always missing on the 5 tons.
Its tighter than if it was bolted on and the engine heat does not affect it.
Still have a new tube of it at home

Welding is great I agree, but some places the adhesive is a much better choice.
As mentioned it totally eliminates the chance of rust where it's properly applied.

The auto manufacturers use it everyday. Welds too


Good luck and keep us updated

 

[iacucv]

Assel, to each his own, I understand. I refuse to panel bond quarter panels on the old 8ft long tail muscle cars I've done, and several other spots. Something just makes me want to keep it metal. Spot weld and go slow for sure, 6" apart or more. Make a pass down and let it cool naturally. Then make another pass spotting 6" apart. It takes forever and you will likely still have warping on sheet metal but not tons. The scariest part of welding panels on like that is pinholes in your weld will come right back through filler, primer, and paint. Best way to find and fix them is to finish your grinding ( slow and easy passes with the grinder, it will heat warp things too ) and then run over your weld with a spot sandblaster. It will make the pinholes stick out. Luckily you're set up for shielding gas, that's a plus for this kind of work. Best of luck!