Wis. UNRESTRICTED USE for milvehs info

[undysworld]

Hi again.

As promised, an effort is underway to obtain normal, unrestricted registration for ex-military vehicles which comply with U.S. Safety Standards (FMVSS). Like was posted previously, we got Trans-123 formally withdrawn. Now on to the next step...

To be clear, this does not effect the Historic Military Vehicle law which was passed here last year, to provide for collectors who own historically accurate vehicles for display or parade-use.

Tom Zat, owner of Alfa Heaven, has presented WisDOT with documentation supporting his argument that they cannot refuse normal registration for vehicles which satisfied FMVSS requirements at the time of their manufacture. WisDOT has already agreed to provide normal registration for Dodge M-880 pickups. Tom's latest submittal includes photos of GMC CUCVs which also bear NHTSA's FMVSS labels.

Tom is not trying to change the law. He's merely demanding that WisDOT/DMV honor existing state and federal laws. It's their job.

He includes the tables that DMV needs to refer to in order to determine whether a particular vehicle met FMVSS, because that information isn't on DMV's computer. DMV refuses to do the legwork, preferring instead to simply refuse registrations for their own clerical convenience.

This is Tom's livelihood, he's been selling surplus U.S. armed forces vehicles to civilians for decades. He's a licensed Wis. Motor Vehicle dealer, and a licensed Motor Vehicle Manufacturer. He intends to take them to court if need be.

Where do you fit in?

If you live in Wisconsin, please contact your state Senator and Assembly Rep. Ask them to contact WisDOT Secretary Gottlieb, and demand that DMV honor all current state and federal laws, and to support Tom Zat's efforts.

If you want copies of Tom's submittals, please get me your regular email address. I don't know how to post that stuff up here. If anyone can post it here for me, that would be great. Forward it to anyone involved.

The info regarding federal laws is pertinent to all U.S. states. Individual state laws will vary. This info may be of use to others, in the future.

If you're a member of MVPA, please let the directors know how you feel about whether the MVPA supports normal registration options for FMVSS-compliant milvehs. I'm told that MVPA only supports historically-accurate collector's interests. It seems to me that all milveh owners benefit from a broader and more diverse group of owners, using their vehicles safely and legally. It makes the entire hobby healthier. I can't tell the MVPA whether to support this or not. But you guys can. Please do.

Lastly, if you've got any questions or comments, please put 'em up.

Thanks.

Paul Underwood

 

[drgreg]

I too would like to know the MVPA's position on this. I think they dropped the ball with the HMV issue, in the first place. If they consider their position as to only preserve parade trucks and trailer queens, then my dues can be better spent. If they intend to promote the hobby as a whole, then I think they need to be more active in these legislative issues.
I will be looking into Tom's efforts in greater depths. With our recent change of power, I hope the efforts are fruitful. I also would like to see the HMV restrictions re-visited in the near future.

 

[DavidB]

I want to keep my collector plates even if they are blue,and costly.
DavidB

 

[Flyingvan911]

Good luck. I hope you guys are successful.

 

[undysworld]

Greg,

I'm going off this comment:

Understand the position of the MVPA and the collector clubs. Since I’m working as an appointed member of the MVPA Board of Directors legislative committee, I can help you understand who the people involved are and what their roll is. Remember, the P in MVPA stands for preservation. It is not the Military Vehicle Commercial Owners and dealers association. Believe me when I say there is a great deal of discussion and action at the national MVPA board level about exactly what the roll should be in state legislative issues. It may or may not include advocating for commercial or regular use.

What is the MVPA's position? I urge all MVPA members to speak up, and help determine the course of your organization. If it is to support all milveh owners, both collectors and users, then we need some help here.

I know Jeff Rowsam (Catman) is concerned about some changes to the HMV law for collectors, which I support. Things like an occasional personal use, and storage of 'parts' vehicles, similar to other Wis. collector car rules.

To me, this boils down to one thing: As collectors, there will be times when one small segment of our hobby is threatened. Unless we all recognize the common thread which binds us all, and stand together united to support each small segment, our hobby is doomed to wither. Whether you've got a Ferarri or a Ferret in your garage, a Daimler or a deuce & 1/2, and whether you keep it in your living room or your potato patch, we're all fans of unusual vehicles. We need to work together and protect our right, and guys who dig U.S. military vehicles should understand standing together as well as anyone. I hope MVPA stands for everyone.

Paul

Remember, I can provide you with Tom's submitted information. Please feel free to call Tom directly too.

 

[paulfarber]

They should change the V in mVpa to J mJpa (Military JEEP preservation association).

What sucks is that a businessman may have to sue the gooberment to obey its own laws with no compensation becuase some life long a55 hat bureaucrat that could never hold down a real job wakes up one day hand decides its his way, NOT the legal way.

Good luck... Wisconsin and California... neck in neck for worst place to own an MV.

 

[col.halftrack]

Thanks to Paul U. and Tom Z.
They are representing all MV owners. It is my hope that all the Wisconsin mv owners will put aside personal favorites and team up to reign in their DOT. I have been shocked to watch the events in Wisconsin.
I know some hate to hear my references to the battle we fought in Kansas BUT we followed Benjamin Franklin's advice and hung together rather than certainly hanging separately. In my opinion mv collectors in Wisconsin followed Neville Chamberlain's lead and compromised their rights away assuming that the WisDOT was an overwhelming force. Paul U.'s achievements last year prove otherwise. He chose to stand and fight even when desperate mv collectors testified AGAINST him and un-restricted mv use. He fought and WON!!! With the recent positive political change I would hope that a statute could be drafted that would COMPLETELY erase the embarrassing legislation enacted October last.
As for myself my MVPA should represent ALL mv owners!!! Preservation does not mean a trailer queen in a shed. If not for the mv owner who has a work related purpose for his vehicle/s very few mv's would now exist. Future purchases of mv's will certainly diminish if a potential buyer cannot at least in part justify the vehicles cost and upkeep buy expecting it to perform work.
Good Luck to those who choose to FIGHT up thar!!!!
Kevin Lockwood

 

[majortom]

WiscDOT has exceeded their authority. They are applying laws that didn't even exist when some of these vehicles were built. They are taking people's registrations away because their truck has been repainted and in general are trying to remove not only military vehicles but most other collector cars from the road. I have submitted an argument to DOT showing them the error in their ways and referencing all pertinent laws. If successful, Wisconsin will have normal registration with no restrictions available for 1969 and older MVs and certain newer models such as Dodge M880 and the Chevy CUCVs. This fight affects all collectors. Regardless if you want your truck to be a flawless original that only goes to shows or if you have big tires and haul firewood this fight is about government arbitrarily restricting your rights. If you live in Wisconsin, it's critical that you express your support for unrestricted use by writing your legislator. I have posted all of the pertinent information and a web address for finding your legislator on alfaheaven.com. Don't be lazy. What happens here will greatly affect this hobby for many years to come. So muster the troops and thanks for your support! Tom Zat

 

[undysworld]

There you go. Straight from Tom himself.

If you have any doubt about Tom's commitment to this hobby, I urge you to go and visit his facility, or visit his website and read about this issue.

You've seen the news, and the crowds protesting at the Capitol. That's how it's done. You have to speak your mind, or nobody will do it for you. Call, visit, or write your legislators today.

One Comment: "Unrestricted" does not mean you can drive just any old piece of equipment around, and that's not what Tom's thinking about either. First, the vehicle must have met any applicable safety standards for when it was built. Second, you still must meet Wisconsin state equipment requirements as a condition of operation. Third, you must also comply with any restrictions on the license plate you choose, ie: Collector plates cannot operate in January, Farm plates must be used for farm functions only, etc. You still need to follow the laws.

But what "unrestricted" means is that you can make the choice of license plate type to apply for, based on your intended uses for the vehicle. And WisDOT/DMV must honor your choice, instead of refusing your application or forcing you to register for display/parade use.

And again, this does not effect your option to choose the new Historic Military Vehicle (HMV) plate, if you are a collector and only use the vehicle for display/parade uses.

Please stand united, and contact your legislators.

 

[Flyingvan911]

We need a Military Vehicle OWNERS Association. It would cover all aspects of MV ownership and political avocacy for the hobby.

 

[DieselBob]

We need a Military Vehicle OWNERS Association. It would cover all aspects of MV ownership and political avocacy for the hobby.

 

[englishmauser]

WiscDOT has exceeded their authority. They are applying laws that didn't even exist when some of these vehicles were built. They are taking people's registrations away because their truck has been repainted and in general are trying to remove not only military vehicles but most other collector cars from the road. I have submitted an argument to DOT showing them the error in their ways and referencing all pertinent laws. If successful, Wisconsin will have normal registration with no restrictions available for 1969 and older MVs and certain newer models such as Dodge M880 and the Chevy CUCVs. This fight affects all collectors. Regardless if you want your truck to be a flawless original that only goes to shows or if you have big tires and haul firewood this fight is about government arbitrarily restricting your rights. If you live in Wisconsin, it's critical that you express your support for unrestricted use by writing your legislator. I have posted all of the pertinent information and a web address for finding your legislator on alfaheaven.com. Don't be lazy. What happens here will greatly affect this hobby for many years to come. So muster the troops and thanks for your support! Tom Zat

Thanks Tom for everything you have done for the hobby. I am contacting my legislator reguarding the restrictions. Also your Summer Party was awesome.
Jim