need help with turn signals

[poppop]

The turn signals on my Duece have not worked since I returned from the Ga. Rally last year. Its almost time to go again and I am trying to get them working. I have searched the site for info, I have the 5 ton paper manual that covers trouble- shooting the turn signals as well as the CD for the 5 tons. Wiring always give me problems, so if someone out there is familiar with this I could certainly use some help. There is no power going to the turn signal switch. Looking at the wiring diagram wire 22 is the power wire for the switch. Is the 460,461 wire supposed to be hot also?? I have installed a spare light switch and it did not help. This switch has not been proven to be good so it may be bad also. I put a jumper wire from the 15 wire on the light switch to the 22 wire> i then had power to the turn signals but they still would not work. I am going to try a known good light switch today. Can anyone give me any advice????

 

[dabtl]

I am only as good as my teacher, cranetruck, has taught me.

First, do not panic. Second, do not worry about wiring diagrams for the moment.

The very first thing to do is check and clean the grounds on the lights. I was nearly driven crazy last year on my second deuce. I changed all the bolts and inner/outer lock nuts on the rear and moved to the front. At the front lights I had a small problem with one and left out a bolt. After cleaning all of the bases and checking the wires still nothing worked. Before a parade I decided to put in the last bolt just so it would have a hole filled. Bingo! The lights worked. Grounds are the problem most of the time.

Also clean the ground on the turn signal controller on the steering wheel. It should be on with a clean grounding spot.

The flasher needs to have its ground cleaned and checked also. Test the flasher.

If this does not solve the problem, look for wiring problems, worn insulation and such.

Then start with the TM.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Lloyd, if you take a known good turn signal arm and known good flasher box(the one with 3 holes the wires screw into) and install them, if the turn signals don't work, it is a wire issue. Thats the best I can do for now. Also, one of my trucks signals didn't work. I found a wire in the harness to the lever on the column that had broken. Fixing that wire fixed my troubles in that truck. That truck is not here for me to get a picture for you. sorry.

 

[phantomjeep]

did you check the flasher unit on the drivers side fender well, mine was bad ,replaced it 50 bucks and back on the road again

 

[poppop]

The problem is I am not getting any voltage from the light switch to the turn signal switch. The lights worked great when I was towing the Duece and had the lights hooked to the 813. If it was grounds they would not have worked then. I don't think I need to worry about grounds or anything else until I can get 24 volts to the switch. Also the park lights, tail lights and brake lights work fine, so grounds should be OK on the lights themselves.

Thanks for the advice Guys.

 

[Speddmon]

Have you checked the flasher and the ground for the flasher?

looking at the schematic, #22 is the stop light input, should have 24 volts on it, when you have the three lever switch in service drive and or stop light position (I think).
#460-461 is the turn signal input, should also have 24 volts on it, when 3 lever switch is in service drive or stop light position.

From what I can see, 467B should have constant 24 volts on it going to the flasher, when the turn signal switch is in either left, right or 4 way position.

467A should have the on/off flashing 24 volts coming back into the turn signal switch from the flasher, when you're have the switch in any of the left, right, 4-way positions.

I would start with those, especially the ones from the flasher. Try re-grounding the flasher to see if that makes any improvement. If you have stop lights (tail lights) I would lean toward the flasher.

I'm sure there are guys with way more experience than I have who could help out better, but that's my take on it, I could be wrong though.

 

[Speddmon]

I didn't see your latest post, you'll need to put a jumper between the #15 wire and the 460-461 wire to test the turn signals, the 22 wire is for the stop lights only.

After re-reading your original post and your last post, if you jump 15 to 460-461 and you have turn signals, then you probably have a bad 3 lever switch...if not, then you have another issue. more information would be good after you do that test.

 

[ARYankee]

It sounds to me like you may have a bad flasher unit. Mine went bad so I got a new one and then installed the flasher mod. I haven't had any problems since.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Lloyd, what you describe is what happened with the 109. Check the harness along the steering column for broken wires.

 

[poppop]

Thanks speddmon, that is the info I am needing. I will jump 460 and 461 and that should tell me if I have a bad wire as Gimp has suggested. If I get current to them, then the three lever switch must be bad and I will replace it with one I know works to see if that fixes it. Thanks for all the input guys.

OK, I have both three lever switches here on my desk. I have identified the letters by each pin. Pin F is wire 15 and should be the feed to the switch. Pin J is the pin for the 460 461 wire. With the switch in the stop light position I have continuity in both switches. Pin C is the stop light feed and as I understand speddmon should be hot when the switch is in the stoplight position,and it is dead. But i just thought of something and checked all pins and the A pin is hot. The A pin goes to the stop light switch, so the switch is hot as it is supposed to be, so when the brakes are applied it feeds pin K, which I assume feeds pin C inside the switch whichs makes wire 22 hot. The brake lights work, so everything is OK there. Now back to thinking about the turn signals. It is begining to look like maybe a wire is bad. Will have to go check the truck.

 

[poppop]

I do understand the ground thing, but with the plug unscrewed from the turn signal switch should I not be able to find a hot wire with a multimeter and a ground from the multimeter black prong to a metal surface. I tryied several locations for the ground, some of them shiny metal where I had removed screws.

 

[dabtl]

You learn as you go on this stuff. When you get them working, you feel great. When they quit, again, you know where to start. Again.

 

[Speddmon]

poppop,

That info helps out some, but I think you are confusing the stop light circuit hot wire and the turn signal circuit hot wire (they are seperate circuits and wires). As you said, pin 22 goes hot through the stop light switch. The turn signal wire (460-461) is pin "J". As long as you have 24 volts on wire #15 and the 3 lever switch is in either the stop light or service drive position you need to have 24 volts on pin "J" or you'll have no turn signals.

The two wires and circuits (stop and turn) are independent of each other between the 3 lever switch and the turn signal switch. It sounds like you are on the right track. Apply voltage to pin "F" once again (wire 15), or check continuity between there and pin "J". If no continuity or voltage, then you need a new 3 lever switch.

If you have continuity or voltage, go to the wire harness coming into the turn signal lever and check for voltage at pin "G", this is the input for the turn signals. If you have voltage then we need to dig deeper...if not then you have a broken wire like gimpy mentioned.

Keep me posted, we'll figure it out for ya.

 

[poppop]

Speddmon, in my mind I have determined the three lever switch is good. Tomorrow I will run some tests on the truck to ckeck for bad wires.

Thanks for your help!! I will post up the results.

 

[poppop]

Ok, update time. The turn signals are working for now. The 460 -461 wire which supplies 24 volts for the signals was corroded into flush with the plug that screws into the turn signal switch. The cloth wrapping was intact and you could not tell it was broken. When I could not get current with a jumper wire I took my knife and started digging. Since it was broken flush with the plug I could see no way to re-attach the wire. So I took a small eyelet and inserted a screw through it. I then put di-electric grease on the screw and screwed it into the broken wire in the plug. It screwed in pretty tight. I then crimped the wire into the eyelet and bingo, turn signals. I don't know if this fix will last, so if anyone has a parts truck they don't mind cutting the turn signal plug off of I could sure use it. Just cut it off with the wire number tags still attached and let me know.

 

[Speddmon]

Glad to hear you got em figured out. Now onto a more permanent fix for them.

 

[poppop]

Speddmon, It was your info that allowed me to understand the wiring, without it I would still be scraching my head.

Once again, THANK YOU my friend.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Poppop, I think I can get you the wires!

 

[Speddmon]

poppop, no problem I was glad I could help out some....maybe we'll run into each other at the GA rally. That is, once I talk to gimpy some more about making the trip

 

[poppop]

Gimpy if you can get the wires that would be great. Speddom, hope to see you in Ga.