Hydraulic Conversion of PTO Winch

[Heavysteven]

Wow nice build

 

[gringeltaube]

G' - do you have a PN or specs on that spool valve? I do like it's size, but have a concern that it may be quite restrictive on the flow side.
Interested, though...

Will try to get P/N & specs but consider that this is stuff made in Argentina, so prob not many chances to find them in your region...?
Anyways, for that motor, what would be the max. required flow in gal/min at 2000psi?

From your post #17:

.......I gave it a couple complete rotations to let everything settle in before tightening the mount onto the winch. I really don't know if this helped, but is the best installation method I could think of to obtain decent alignment. We'll see how I did...

I think you are talking about possible radial runout and misalignment of the two shafts...
What I mean is slight axial movement with eventually tons of force from the winch shaft transmitted axially to the motor shaft via a rigid coupler! I believe that that part should not fit tight on the motor shaft. Best if it was a splined joint, of course.

G.

 

[m16ty]

Not really very much. I did think about this when I was test fitting. Final fitment was pretty snug. I actually left the motor mount loose on the winch, aligned and tightened the motor onto the mount, and let the shaft coupler do the final aligning. I gave it a couple complete rotations to let everything settle in before tightening the mount onto the winch. I really don't know if this helped, but is the best installation method I could think of to obtain decent alignment. We'll see how I did...

I'm kind of with G on this. I'm worried this may damage your motor over time. There's going to be some end play on your winch shaft when switching from forward to reverse.

On the shear pin I personally would be comfortable letting the system relief valve do the job. To me one of the advantages with going hydro is no shear pin to replace.

Edit- I went back and re-read you post about the shear pin. I see that you're going to replace it with a bolt after testing.

 

[m16ty]

You're not running the stock radiator are you? I know I've looked at this before on my stock A2 and there didn't look like there was enough room to install a A3 hyd motor with the stock radiator.

 

[Ditch Baby]

how much can the A3 stuff be picked up for vrs selling the stock winch and going with an aftermarket winch rated at or more then 10k?

 

[mudguppy]

... I think you are talking about possible radial runout and misalignment of the two shafts...
What I mean is slight axial movement with eventually tons of force from the winch shaft transmitted axially to the motor shaft via a rigid coupler! I believe that that part should not fit tight on the motor shaft. Best if it was a splined joint, of course.

G.

ah, I understand what you're saying. For curiosity sake I'd like to now pull up the winch parts drawings to see what style bearings used to control axial thrust. I'll have to get back to you on that.

you think the -34 will give shaft runout...?

 

[mudguppy]

You're not running the stock radiator are you? I know I've looked at this before on my stock A2 and there didn't look like there was enough room to install a A3 hyd motor with the stock radiator.

no - it's from the repower and is completely above the frame rails and not between. however, the motor does [obviously] occupy the space that the OE drive shaft does, and therefore the area in the radiator that has been clearanced to accomodate this.

What I can do is measure the motor diameter and approximate location for anyone interested in whether this motor will fit in the same void.

 

[mudguppy]

... Anyways, for that motor, what would be the max. required flow in gal/min at 2000psi? ...

To maintain 25 fpm line speed on bare drum (which may not be necessary) the motor will need 20 gpm.

 

[mudguppy]

how much can the A3 stuff be picked up for vrs selling the stock winch and going with an aftermarket winch rated at or more then 10k?

I honestly think that you're going to be hard pressed to readily find a 20k lb hydraulic winch in the 'affordable' neighborhood.


I've got about $1600 in this conversion:

• PTO adapter
• PTO Pump
• A3 Motor, stand, coupler, tank, filter
• Valve
• Hose & fittings

You can sell the winch PTO parts to recoup some of this cost. This is likely too pricey for many. For me, the performance, ease of operation, and safety are worth it.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the $100 in trans oil that it cost to refill my transmission...

 

[m16ty]

no - it's from the repower and is completely above the frame rails and not between. however, the motor does [obviously] occupy the space that the OE drive shaft does, and therefore the area in the radiator that has been clearanced to accomodate this.

What I can do is measure the motor diameter and approximate location for anyone interested in whether this motor will fit in the same void.

Yes, the radiator is cut out but I don't think it's cut out enough to fit a hyd motor. I'd be interested in the motor dia. In the pics it looks too big to clear the radiator. That's not saying a hyd winch wouldn't work on a stock A2 though. You'd just need a shaft and mount the motor to the truck frame rail.

 

[gringeltaube]

.........For curiosity sake I'd like to now pull up the winch parts drawings to see what style bearings used to control axial thrust. I'll have to get back to you on that...

Don't be surprised to find std. #6309 ball bearings there (TM9-3830-206-34P, fig.2, item #6); on a shaft that is subject to over 4-times the maximum recommended axial load for that particular bearing!
Upgrading to same size tapered roller bearings will take care of that... (pics)
To bad I couldn't find the Timken (45x100x25) #376/372 set locally, but with only little machining the (45x100x27.25) #30309 can be fitted as well.

you think the -34 will give shaft runout...?

No. They would tell you to replace the bearings if there was any significant runout to be felt... Although it does specify minimum axial end play for the wormshaft: 0.005 in.

G.

 

[clinto]

mudguppy, your stuff always looks top notch. I am always impressed.

 

[mudguppy]

Yes, the radiator is cut out but I don't think it's cut out enough to fit a hyd motor. I'd be interested in the motor dia. In the pics it looks too big to clear the radiator. ...

I'm thinking you're correct. Motor diameter is ~4.5"; it is located approximately 7" in from the inside of the frame vertical web with a total width of about 9.25" from the same location. It's hard to figure the top since the OE radiator is no longer there, but there needs to be about 5.25" vertical clearance as taken from the top of the forward edge of the front crossmember.

If this is confusing, pictures should clarify.

 

[booger]

Travis,

Very nice, this is a first class job just like all of your mods. On this mod however, I'm wondering...WHY? Why are you going to all of this time, effort and EXPENSE to convert from mechanical to hydraulic and back to mechanical again? Is it just 'Cooler'? I could see using hydraulics so you could mount the controls out back or out front by the winch, making it handier, but you didn't even do that. Your controls are still in the cab just like a mechanical PTO which is the biggest PIA about PTO winches ( having to be in the cab to operate the clutch ) Is a hydraulic winch faster? stronger? safer? Seems like you took a very basic, simple PTO winch and made it very complicated. I'm sure you, or somebody can 'splain it to me.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[m16ty]

Booger, Hyd winches are much more controllable and therefor safer. They also eliminate the need for a shear pin. If you've ever ran both you'd understand. Hyd winches are smooth running.

Personally I'd have used a solenoid valve and had a remote cable so I could also run it outside the truck. That's just personal preference though. The way Travis has his set up will work fine if it suits him.

I've got hyd on my truck for the dump and I've also considered converting the winch to hyd. I don't use the winch that much though so for now I've decided to leave it PTO drive. If I used the winch very often there wouldn't be a question about it, I'd go hyd.

 

[mudguppy]

Travis, ... Why are you going to all of this time, effort and EXPENSE to convert from mechanical to hydraulic and back to mechanical again? Is it just 'Cooler'? ...

For sure!!!

... Is a hydraulic winch faster? stronger? safer? ...

The answers should be Yes, The same, and Yes. Mainly, I'm after the 'safer' part; the hydraulic winch cannot be left in either Pay In or Out by error or default. Therefore, the hydraulic conversion is more condusive to safe winch operation by a solo operator.

... Seems like you took a very basic, simple PTO winch and made it very complicated. ...

Not really. You see, I had the option when I swapped in the new transmission as a part of the repower project. There is a gear drive PTO box available for the NV4500 transmission that would perform almost identical to the OE PTO box that was being replaced. However, for the overall cost of the NV4500 PTO transmission and custom driveshaft it would have been similar to the cost of hydraulic conversion. And given the increase in flexibility of operation and safety factor when accomplished by a solo operator it made sense that the hydraulic conversion was the best choice for me.

I feel that the elimination of risk of the winch being able to be left in gear inadvertantly to either property or personal injury worth the increase in cost over keeping the winch mechanically powered. Since I am most often without the aide of 'Soldier B' then I am less likely if not impossibly able to create a scenario in which I am able to injur myself or others.

To me, that is more important than the final 'EXPENSE'.

 

[booger]

Travis,

I guess you've found a way to make ' the perils of being cool ' - be safe. I get it. Nice.

I did acquire a couple of hydraulic winches recently, haven't messed with them yet though. I'll eventually incorporate one of them onto my truck. Cool AND safe...that's a rare combination.

Greg

 

[Andy1234]

Mud,

A very nice job with the workmanship as well as the write-up!

Thanks,
Andy

 

[Sevin7]

Elaborate Please

Sizing the pump to the motor needed to be done carefully. I used a PTO calculator spreadsheet that was made by a company that speciallizes in doing such hydraulic conversions. I had to do some research on finding the specs of the A3 motor that I had acquired.

I am interested in doing something similar. Could you elaborate on where I might find the spreadsheet you mention as well as the specs of the A3 hydraulic motor? Thank you.


P.S. As it has been said, you sure do nice work.

 

[Sephirothq]

Do you have a list of the fittings and the hose lengths that you used?