new to me MEP-003A with possibly bad engine?

[nostaw]

Hi All -

I just purchased 2x MEP-003A units from GL.... Picked them up earlier in the week. When I was able to get my hands on them I think I found some indicators which suggest one of these units may be an expensive paperweight (maybe fixable, maybe not)....

I've been reading through the forums' previous posts and the FAQ / wiki pages -- they have been really helpful! -- unfortunately, I haven't seen exactly this situation described.

I think one of the units may have got water into the crank case and/or fuel system at some point and is going to have rusted internals. I haven't been able to do much work on the unit yet to confirm, but this is what I see:

1) Fuel tank is very rusty / corroded inside under cap
2) Oil filler cap is loose fit / shows some slight rust inside the neck at the "bell" near top
3) Oil pressure gauge has condensation (water, I think) in it
4) The top electrical diagram is covered with hardened white "powder", which may be salt condensated onto it (I'm guessing),

If the oil pressure gauge is electric, condensation may just mean a bad gauge... if mechanical (which I think it is) then that suggests the crank case has water in it...

Neither unit appears to have any oil in them (wasn't expecting any)... And I think the fuel tanks are empty as well.

I realize I'm going to have to do a lot to both units to check their condition... Fortunately the other unit I've got doesn't appear to have these types of problems -- clean fuel tank, no condensation in any gauges, no rust at the top of the oil filler neck, less rust on it overall on the exterior. Both units are fairly low hours (one has 8 hrs, the "bad" one has ~340) on the meters.

I have new fuel / air / oil filters ready to install, but I haven't had time to tear into the units yet.... They haven't even made it off the trailer quite yet. Other than the stuff I mention above both units look to be intact / aren't missing anything (other than the battery tie downs).

I was thinking I may be to remove the oil filter mounting plate and see if I could peek into the sump / bottom of the crank case to check for rusty / corroded internals. Another idea was to pull the glow plugs from the cylinders and peek in there... A last through was to try cranking the engine manually with a wrench at the flywheel / fan end to see if it is frozen...

I have all the TMs, but I haven't been through all of them yet.... The TMs seem to suggest to go straight to starting the unit, which I really don't want to do yet -- why dump in new oil if the engine is shot already...

What do you guys suggest to look for to see if the engine is going to be bad?

TIA,

JW

 

[m38inmaine]

On the rusty unit I would throw some batteries in it and see if it spins over and if the fuel pumps turn on. If so, I would take the time to clean the tank, replace all the filters, new oil and try and start it. Bad fuel tanks and gages are common from sitting around. Might also want to check the interior of the control panel before you start as well looking for loose connections or obvious missing parts. Keep us posted.

 

[Stonepicker1]

Same as what "m38inmaine" said.

Fill with oil, By-pass the main fuel tank for now and start it up. Should be good to go.

 

[PeterD]

...
1) Fuel tank is very rusty / corroded inside under cap

Could be just condensation. Not unusual, especially under the cap.

2) Oil filler cap is loose fit / shows some slight rust inside the neck at the "bell" near top

Again, condensation is commonly the cause of this and can be very common.

3) Oil pressure gauge has condensation (water, I think) in it

Likely the seal on the glass (or the rear connectors) is bad.

4) The top electrical diagram is covered with hardened white "powder", which may be salt condensated onto it (I'm guessing),

Could be anything, I sure would not panic on that yet!

If the oil pressure gauge is electric, condensation may just mean a bad gauge...
if mechanical (which I think it is) then that suggests the crank case has water in it...

There is no basis for that suggestion! A mechanical gauge doesn't have any way for either condensation, water, or anything (like oil) to get into the gauge itself! However, I am relatively sure it is electrical in nature (but not positive, sorry!)

Neither unit appears to have any oil in them (wasn't expecting any)... And I think the fuel tanks are empty as well.

I realize I'm going to have to do a lot to both units to check their condition... Fortunately the other unit I've got doesn't appear to have these types of problems -- clean fuel tank, no condensation in any gauges, no rust at the top of the oil filler neck, less rust on it overall on the exterior. Both units are fairly low hours (one has 8 hrs, the "bad" one has ~340) on the meters.

I have new fuel / air / oil filters ready to install, but I haven't had time to tear into the units yet.... They haven't even made it off the trailer quite yet. Other than the stuff I mention above both units look to be intact / aren't missing anything (other than the battery tie downs).

I was thinking I may be to remove the oil filter mounting plate and see if I could peek into the sump / bottom of the crank case to check for rusty / corroded internals. Another idea was to pull the glow plugs from the cylinders and peek in there... A last through was to try cranking the engine manually with a wrench at the flywheel / fan end to see if it is frozen...

I have all the TMs, but I haven't been through all of them yet.... The TMs seem to suggest to go straight to starting the unit, which I really don't want to do yet -- why dump in new oil if the engine is shot already...

What do you guys suggest to look for to see if the engine is going to be bad?

TIA,

JW

What does some cheap oil cost? Go to Wallyworld and get some cheap stuff for testing. That's what I do, after testing and determining the engine is worth saving (it almost always is!) I drain the oil and refill with better oil. Face it, this gives you a good, cheap flush, which is good on its own.

I recommend seeing if the engine is frozen up or not. If it will turn over, do an oil change, filters, and see what happens!

 

[Isaac-1]

Water in an engine does not mean the end of the world, depending on your planned use, etc. I bought a commercial John Deere diesel powered skid mounted Kohler generator off GL a few years ago the externally mounted muffler had been removed and the exhaust manifold had been covered with a trash bag and duct tape. Unfortunately it had been stored outside and the trash bag had rotted away allowing rain water to go down the exhaust manifold. When I picked it up it had been drained of fluids, battery removed, etc. like most GL items with little care to potential reuse (lower radiator hose cut, fuel and oil filters removed, battery cable ends crushed), Well over a gallon of water drained out of the sump when I opened the oil drain valve, maybe as much as 2 gallons, I pulled the dip stick and found a few water/ light rust spots on it, but thankfully no water on the end of the dipstick , therefore the water likely never did get high enough to get to the crank. After getting it home I found the engine was seized, with a bit of hope and wishful thinking I decided to try soaking it to see if it would free up and go from there. So I dumped a mix of 50/50 ATF and Marvel Mystery oil down the open exhaust manifold and let it sit for a week or so. I then drained the mix and added some cheap engine oil hook up a battery (probably should have tried turning it over by hand) and tried to crank it. It slowly cranked over a little, but was still stiff so I kill the start switch , added a bit more ATF/Marvel Mystery oil to the exhaust and let it soak a bit longer. A day or so later I tried cranking it again, this time the engine cranked right over at starting speed and shot a black mix of oil out the exhaust about 20 feet up into the air, after cleaning up most the the oil gusher simulation I proceeded to work on cleaning out the fuel system, and was able to get it to start up on gasoline fumes that same day. Initial running was a bit rough, and it shut down after 30 seconds due to a bad oil pressure sender, but at least it did run, and the running proceeded to clear up with a bit of run time, and added load to clear the exhaust. That generator is now in use as a standby generator at my elderly mother's house and has put about 100 hours on the meter over the last couple of years. Did the water shorten the life of the engine, probably, am I going to do anything else about until it fails, no.

Ike

p.s. correction upon reading over this I remembered that I did go ahead and add the ATF/Marvel Mystery oil upon finding the water, before getting it home and confirming it was seized, that way it had the agitation of a couple of hundred miles on the trailer to do more work.

 

[Speddmon]

I don't think I would go to the trouble of putting batteries in them just yet. Take a wrench and try to turn the "wet" engine over by hand first. As long as it's not frozen, then clean the heck out of the fuel tank and fuel system in general. Pull as many fuel feed and return lines as you can and clean them if they need it. If the engine spins with a wrench, then go and put oil and batteries in it, after the fuel system is cleaned, try to fire it up.

The condensation in the oil pressure gauge is probably just that....condensation. It's a mechanical gauge, there is air inside the gauge...air has moisture....moisture condenses. If you suspect bigger problems, pull the dipstick and check it's general condition. If it's not rusted, I would try to start it. The most you'll be out is 5 quarts of oil and a filter....big deal. Also, if you are that concerned about moisture...if it does run, start it, let it get to temperature and shut it down and then change the oil to help to flush any moisture out.

Last thing...NEVER RUN THE ENGINE WITH THE THROTTLE ALL THE WAY IN!!!!!!!! (Never idle the engine) most of the sets I've seen ans heard about run and put out 60 Hz with the throttle cable about 3/4" or so pulled out. Make sure the throttle is about at that position before you start it. The electronics on generators don't like to run lower than their rated speed.

 

[nostaw]

OK... Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions... That makes me slightly more hopeful this thing isn't a lost cause and will be operable with a bit of TLC.

I did get the units off the car trailer today. One made it onto a set of dollys, the other just to the garage floor (I needed to get another pair of furniture dollys). Both will be indoors for the time being, so they shouldn't get much worse....

I got a better look in the fuel tanks once they were on the ground, but haven't had time to do much more. The unit with corrosion has a fairly nasty looking tank - dry, but lots of corroded gunk in there. There may have been a tiny bit of water / diesel sitting in the "can" that is under the fuel cap.

The clean unit has some liquid, likely old diesel, in the the tank... enough to cover the bottom, but not register on the gauge. Inside the tank looks pretty clean / no corrosion.

I'll try turning the engines over by hand tomorrow and start going through the wiring / fittings. I'm hoping to pull the oil and fuel filters see what is in there. I'll probably hit all the fasteners for the access panels and fittings with some PB Blaster and let them soak a bit...

It occurs to me I have 10 qts of used Valvoline 15W-40 synthetic diesel oil from my CRD WK that I could probably throw in the wet unit if it comes to testing with disposable oil. I have some fresh stuff on the shelf too, but not enough for both units...

I'll post up again once I get a little further with my investigation.

JW

 

[Timeline98]

Mep-003a

What was the outcome on this? Was the engine frozen? If so, did you ever get it to free up and what did you do to get there? TY

 

[nostaw]

What was the outcome on this? Was the engine frozen? If so, did you ever get it to free up and what did you do to get there? TY

There was definitely something in the crank that wasn't oil... Looked like muddy water, or something.

Engine isn't seized. I changed the oil and all filters and tried it... Sputters, blows smoke, but hasn't started.

I'm pretty sure I need to crank it some more and replace the oil before running it again.

I had a leak at the oil filter seal and haven't got back to it since trying the last time... Other higher priority projects got in the way.

JW

 

[Keith_J]

Probably gummed up injection pumps. Don't try to run them if the control lever will not move freely. I have posted instructions for this yesterday.