deuce hyd power steering

[m16ty]

I never really thought about power steering on my deuce until I got a 5-ton. Man, that power steering sure is nice. I driven deuces with air-assist and wasn't satisfied. I've also seen the threads about changing out the steering gear with a power steering box but really didn't want to go through that much work. I remembered I had seen old trucks that was setup like the air-assist but hyd powered so I searched the web and found this- http://www.crownshoptalk.com/garrisonhttp://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEAVfS7Cp2Sljo-mxQlVZYoGGdamA&cad=rja



I haven't done all the research on this yet or know how much it cost but it looks promising. All you would need to do is change out the drag link, add a hyd cylinder to the tie rod, and install a P/S pump off of a 5-ton multifuel.

 

[ODdave]

just scraped an International grain truck to day with that style of power steering on it.........

 

[m16ty]

I wish I had known that. I would have paid you good money for the drag link.

Don't recon you could go dig it out of the scrap heap could you?

 

[gringeltaube]

It has been done already, also see this thread: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?64934-hydro-assist-manual-steering.html

BUT.... keep in mind that also for this conversion, one major drawback still is finding/buying the (MF 5ton) PS pump.

Also the limitations of the stock manual Ross steering gear:

• the stock gear has a ratio of 23 (vs 19:1 for a typical PS gear)
• combined with the short 5.5"/C-C pitman arm it takes almost 7 turns of the wheel, stop to stop (vs half that much for a HF54 gear with its 9" arm)
• that with that very short PA we only get 9" of total draglink travel, which has proven to be barely sufficient for a full-right turning angle, depending suspension articulation and other conditions. (the HF54 with a 7.5" arm is all you want for a Deuce to steer like a family sedan...)

All that makes me think that a typical ram assist, retrofitted to the original setup by retaining the stock PA would only help to reduce "arm-strong" steering effort, but not addressing quick, direct response at the wheel like you can get with a suitable PS gearbox.

G.

 

[JasonS]

The HF54 is five turns lock to lock (95 degree sweep) and has 12.200 in-lbs force with 1kpsi pump. There is an 8.5" pitman arm available on the four port box.

This summarizes some steering geometry:
Pitman arm length (in)5.566.577.588.59Sweep (in)7.788.499.199.9010.6111.3112.0212.73Force (lbs)2218.182033.331876.921742.861626.671525.001435.291355.56Sweep/turn1.561.701.841.982.122.262.402.55Trns for 9" sweep5.795.304.904.554.243.983.743.54

 

[JasonS]

the hf54 is five turns lock to lock (95 degree sweep) and has 12.200 in-lbs force with 1kpsi pump. There is an 8.5" pitman arm available on the four port box.

This summarizes some steering geometry:
pitman arm length (in)5.566.577.588.59sweep (in)7.788.499.199.9010.6111.3112.0212.73force (lbs)2218.182033.331876.921742.861626.671525.001435.291355.56sweep/turn1.561.701.841.982.122.262.402.55trns for 9" sweep5.795.304.904.554.243.983.743.54

pdf:

 

[gringeltaube]

Good info! That chart more or less confirms what I have found so far: for the HF54 with the 9"(Ford) pitman arm it only takes 3.5 turns at the ST wheel to turn the knuckles fully right-left; about 9" of draglink travel, or what is called "sweep".
That's why I decided to use a shorter arm, 7.5" C/C.... and why I think that when adding such a "hydra-assist" to the original Deuce steering a much longer than stock- pitman arm should be used.



G.

 

[deathrowdave]

I used the Garrison System on my truck with 5ton multi pump. Works great do not have to modify the column or OEM steering box . Has more power than needed. I found mine on an old fire truck with low miles. I had to modify the steering arm on the axle to increase to 1 1/2 ball stud (5 ton) . Other than that straight forward upgrade.

 

[JasonS]

Good info! That chart more or less confirms what I have found so far: for the HF54 with the 9"(Ford) pitman arm it only takes 3.5 turns at the ST wheel to turn the knuckles fully right-left; about 9" of draglink travel, or what is called "sweep".
That's why I decided to use a shorter arm, 7.5" C/C.... and why I think that when adding such a "hydra-assist" to the original Deuce steering a much longer than stock- pitman arm should be used.



G.

My stock dodge ram is ~4.5 turns and aftermarket boxes are 3.5 turns. My M35 will be 3.75 turns lock to lock which will be somwehere nice in the middle. If the power isn't enough, I'll add an assist cylinder.

 

[booger]

Good info! That chart more or less confirms what I have found so far: for the HF54 with the 9"(Ford) pitman arm it only takes 3.5 turns at the ST wheel to turn the knuckles fully right-left; about 9" of draglink travel, or what is called "sweep".
That's why I decided to use a shorter arm, 7.5" C/C.... and why I think that when adding such a "hydra-assist" to the original Deuce steering a much longer than stock- pitman arm should be used.



G.

would you happen to know of a longer pitman arm that would work or be modified to work on the stock steering box? I need one about 2 1/2 inches longer than stock. I've got a 2 1/2 inch spring lift and a longer pitman arm would level the Garrison drag link and work better with "hydra-assist" as you pointed out

 

[gringeltaube]

would you happen to know of a longer pitman arm ........

No Sir; I don't. Sorry.

But you know what I would do.......... ?(..... it MIG-welds very well! )

Of course: OFF-ROAD USE, ONLY!


G.

 

[quickfarms]

Good info

 

[m-35tom]

i am going to start a list of off the shelf parts for power steering on a deuce. since i have done several and find it pretty easy, tell me what parts YOU think you would want to just buy used as opposed to buying a complete kit?
if a complete hydraulic kit could be around $2000, would any one be interested?
tom

 

[michigandon]

I would be interested if it could be done in the sub-$1500 ballpark.

I wouldn't have a problem with getting a pump and box from a junkyard. Hoses I would want NEW.

The more bolt on (and fewer weld-in) components, the better, IMHO.

 

[m-35tom]

the BIG money is in the box and pump, maybe as much as $1000 depending on how 'lucky' you are. everything is bolt on. i will have a basic kit soon, and you can add from there.
tom

 

[booger]

the BIG money is in the box and pump, maybe as much as $1000 depending on how 'lucky' you are. everything is bolt on. i will have a basic kit soon, and you can add from there.
tom

The BIG problem is with a box on the outside of the frame rail the tire will hit it

 

[m16ty]

The BIG problem is with a box on the outside of the frame rail the tire will hit it

That's easily solved with the correct box.

Tom, I looked into this myself and ran into the same wall you did with a complete bolt on kit, price. The fact is most people post that they would love to have a bolt on power steering kit but when a price is quoted they back up. I do think just the brackets and such would sell good and people could find their own box.

 

[m-35tom]

yes, you may be right.

i have 14.5R20XL tires and they do not touch. i have done stock tire and wheel trucks and there is no problem that i recall. you can go with a ross box on the inside, but i prefer the saginaw 710. i suppose we should have a defination of 'power' but the saginaw steers with one finger sitting still. perhaps gerhard will give us a lb of effort at 18' diameter wheel so i can compare. the ross box would probably be easier to get used. mounting either is quite simple. i was thinking of a 'kit' that had the upper and lower column, a frame reinforcement ready to install, a reservoir for the firewall. i think this small kit could be made available for $250
5 ton pumps are easy to get and you could have your hoses made locally. also a 800 series wheel would be easy to source.
tom

 

[ODdave]

5 ton pumps are easy to get

? Where?

Or are you talking about the belt driven ones?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yeah, right, I know many people that have trouble finding the 5ton steering wheels.