Deuce Shifting Questions

[m16ty]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzacjZHkjQo&feature=player_detailpage[/media]

Look at about 2:00. That's how not to release a clutch. Very hard on driveline.

 

[TMNT]

Clarification on my earlier statement regarding holding the RPMs up between gears:

I found my deuce to be picky about slipping into gear if I let the RPMs fall off between gears. I'd end up having to double-clutch and blip the throttle about half the time to get it into the next gear. I found that if I held the RPMs up a bit between shifts, that it slipped into gear with no problems. I'm not actually holding throttle on at the moment I release the clutch, so I back off the throttle a bit at the moment that I release the clutch. I get back on the power only after the clutch pedal is fully released. All I'm doing is RPM matching so the shift is smooth. All of that happens very quickly, 2 seconds or less.

One other trick is to avoid shifting too soon. Don't shift up to the next gear until the truck is ready. Apply throttle and let the RPMs climb until the power train relaxes, that is, you're not gaining more speed and the truck isn't really pulling anymore. It should be "topped out" and not under a strain before you shift. If its still pulling in 3rd and you shift to 4th, it's going to bog or buck after the shift.

Another thing I've seen some drivers do is try shifting up when climbing a long hill. If she's pulling the hill in a lower gear but not topped out, leave it in that lower gear and wait until you top the hill. The RPMs will rise and you'll feel the truck relax and then shift up.

 

[F18hornetM]

Another question, I was told that these trucks are notorious for having head gasket failure and it's best to check to make sure the cylinders are clear before starting the truck. True/False?

If it cranks over, most likely there is nothing [no coolant] in the cylinder. Not sure thats anything you have to worry with as long as your not losing coolant. Just make sure all fluids are good.

 

[Mike929]

To expand on the existing thread. How about when reversing?

How do you back up to a trailer slowly without slipping the clutch excessively?

Are you guys going in full speed with the Reverse gear engaged, or do you need to get on and off the clutch to allow a slower approach?

Just curious, I had to back my deuce up to a trailer and ended up slipping the clutch more then I liked. (based on warnings from this site) I actually have a lot of experience backing up my pickup truck to trailers, but was new to backing in a deuce.

Maybe the correct method is to shift into Low so my approach is slow enough without the clutch?

Note: in my case this was not an option. I have a new T-case waiting for installation because there is a bearing going out in the one that is in the deuce now. Shifting it to Low may cause issues with the present T-case that I wanted to avoid)

 

[F18hornetM]

They all do seem to have a nature of their own. My duece doesnt like to downshift from 5th-4th when cold. Upshift in any gears are fine. After warm up, a few miles, its fine. Like most vehicles they all have their quirks.

 

[F18hornetM]

To expand on the existing thread. How about when reversing?

How do you back up to a trailer slowly without slipping the clutch excessively?

Are you guys going in full speed with the Reverse gear engaged, or do you need to get on and off the clutch to allow a slower approach?

Just curious, I had to back my deuce up to a trailer and ended up slipping the clutch more then I liked. (based on warnings from this site) I actually have a lot of experience backing up my pickup truck to trailers, but was new to backing in a deuce.

Maybe the correct method is to shift into Low so my approach is slow enough without the clutch?

Note: in my case this was not an option. I have a new T-case waiting for installation because there is a bearing going out in the one that is in the deuce now. Shifting it to Low may cause issues with the present T-case that I wanted to avoid)

I do use low range around the yard alot, but no I dont back the trailer[105] up full speed, you have to "ride" the clutch some, just like any other manual transmission in a tractor or a truck. Clutchs are built to slip some, this doesnt mean excessive and I would let out fully as soon as I can. But you have to a little.
I dont think these clutchs need to be treated any different than any other manual transmission vehicle. If I ever eat my words, Ill be the first to say so. I've put lots of clutchs in vehicles in 30+ years of mechanic work. Interestingly, never in one Ive owned. Maybe thats because I'd have to fix it..

 

[phil2968]

Backing up in low range is always a good idea, especially when backing a trailer. The truck moves slower and gives you more time to react if you need to stop. You can let the clutch out fully in low range with no throttle applied, the governor will keep the engine from stalling if your load is not to great.
Something my dad taught me when I learned to drive was always try to park so you don't have to reverse to leave. That is not always possible but I try to park that way when I can.

 

[mcmullag]

shifting

1) yeah once in awhile folks here mention about head gasket leaks but I think that is just because the trucks are old and sat a lot so the gaskets maybe got dry and brittle. 2) this video may help you... watch his foot on the thottle, he comes off the throttle pedal when he pushes in the clutch, getting ready to go to the next gear. That's what I do. Maybe practice with a small vehicle with a manual transmission. Whomever told you about not slipping the clutch, really led you astray. Don't worry about the split shifting in the video just yet, there is another recent thread about that too, I just wanted to show you how your feet kinda seesaw as you go thru the gears... left foot pushing down clutch while right foot is coming off throttle pedal. now in next gear, right foot goes down on throttle pedal while left foot is coming up, letting out the clutch. Listen to the sound of the engine too, he is doing it pretty darn smoothly.
3) you brought up 'hydraulic lock' with the cylinders, caused by leaking injectors. Start procedure to avoid engine damage is to pull out throttle dingus on dash so truck wont start, then hit button and crank engine, if fluid in cylinders engine with 'Thud!' and stop turning over and you know you got a problem but ya avoided twisting a connecting rod, etc if the fuel was on and the engine started up. ****Try to find those cartoon manuals on here somewhere with Connie Rod talking to the soldiers, easy way to learn stuff. Best of luck

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfwO8mEDz48&feature=related[/media]

 

[Katahdin]

....After 3rd gear I'm good no more bad shakes. I don't know what's up, looking for some insight.

Z, crawl under the truck and check your drive shaft bolts for tightness, in particular look at the ones between the transmission and transfer case. I'm wondering if these are loose, which is a common problem found when these trucks are adopted by new owners.

 

[Evil Dr. Porkchop]

Another question, I was told that these trucks are notorious for having head gasket failure and it's best to check to make sure the cylinders are clear before starting the truck. True/False?

Check out this thread. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/12923-hydrolock.html

 

[zeisshensoldt]

Today I attempted the advice that was offered here in this thread and the results were superb. The shifts actually felt smooth and I was happy with them. Although, I'm still trying to get used to it and I did get a few shakes, but they were very small light shakes. All in all, I'm getting better at this and i wish i never listened to the guy telling me to dump the clutch. Thanks for all the shifting assistance guys!

 

[ClintA]

Don't ride the clutch allso means, don't rest your foot on the clutch while driving. Fether the clutch out and when it is all the way out take your foot OFF.

 

[vtdeucedriver]

Guess now that he has the feel for it, should we tell him about compression braking?

 

[DieselBob]

Guess now that he has the feel for it, should we tell him about compression braking?

Or not needing that clutch pedal thing once your moving...

 

[panshark]

I would say to hold off on clutch-less shifting for a while, and in response to OP's last question about staying in the gas during a shift, remember that a duece is not a Porsche. You're not worried about your time at the drag strip, right? Like has been said previously, a see-saw action is appropriate, and it is acceptable to be moving your right foot to get your revs matched up while your left foot is moving up off the clutch. If you choose to throttle while releasing the clutch, your goal should be smoothness of operation. When you're shifting through the gears, it should like like a work of art, your truck should be so smooth. No jerking, no gear-grinding. This holds true for accelerating and slowing down to a full stop. Take a couple hours out in the country to just practice this, take your time, and focus on smoothness. You'll thank yourself later, because your reward will be that you make driving the duece "look good" to everyone else.

I believe the manuals advise against double-clutching, if I'm wrong on this point I'm sure others will correct me. Furthermore, I believe the manuals also advise against down-shifting in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So you're supposed to use your brakes to slow down to a stop, instead of letting the transmission and clutch take the wear and tear of the stop.

 

[vtdeucedriver]

I would say to hold off on clutch-less shifting for a while, and in response to OP's last question about staying in the gas during a shift, remember that a duece is not a Porsche. You're not worried about your time at the drag strip, right? Like has been said previously, a see-saw action is appropriate, and it is acceptable to be moving your right foot to get your revs matched up while your left foot is moving up off the clutch. If you choose to throttle while releasing the clutch, your goal should be smoothness of operation. When you're shifting through the gears, it should like like a work of art, your truck should be so smooth. No jerking, no gear-grinding. This holds true for accelerating and slowing down to a full stop. Take a couple hours out in the country to just practice this, take your time, and focus on smoothness. You'll thank yourself later, because your reward will be that you make driving the duece "look good" to everyone else.

I believe the manuals advise against double-clutching, if I'm wrong on this point I'm sure others will correct me. Furthermore, I believe the manuals also advise against down-shifting in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So you're supposed to use your brakes to slow down to a stop, instead of letting the transmission and clutch take the wear and tear of the stop.

You are correct on both when it comes to double clutch and compression braking.

 

[Floridianson]

That vid of splitting the gears is not splitting to me it's just useing low range through all the gears then hitting 4 high then 5 high. Splitting to me is some of the older over the road trans the you left it in the gear you were crusing in slid the button on the shifter and split that gear a little lower. I only use 1 low when I use my winch and ingage the trans when the line is tight and the tires will spin and winch will pull at a very good speed or together to help get you out of the mud. I would only use first gear low if I was heavyly loaded and trying to come out of a soft hole or real soft ground that is stealing my power. I would come out at below red line or maybe 1900 rpm till Im shure I was on good solid ground. I might use 1 high if I was fording a creek that had a good bottom. All my trucks Deuces or 5 tons empty I can use 2 low to start without add any fuel and not slip the clutch much. Then I can go to 2 high if I don't have a load and finish off all the rest in high. If I had a Heavy load I would use 2 low 3 low all the way up then 4 and 5 high. When I am at the mud boggs I use 2 low and nothing else. I have never hit a hole where the motor bogged down but when I hit the throttel the rpm will go to red line and I dig a hole or I spin my AZZ out of the mud hole. If you don't want to spin your way out then use first low. If you were climbing a tough hill where you wanted full rpm but you don't want your tires spinning or want a slow ground speed then first low would be your gear. In the mud I might get lucky and spin the cleats clear to bite better. Most of my tires are not ndt and will clog if there is not much water in the mix. I said it before wind out every gear to almost red line before you shift till you get to the speed you want. If you shift to early you did not take advantage of the rpm and higher ground speed you get and you might find your rpms drop below 1500 on the next shift. I always try and stay above 1500 on all my shifts and cruse at 1850 to 1900 to conserve fuel or higher speeds are not needed like in town. If you have to double clutch a syncro trans then there is a problem. You don't want to shift a syncro trans without useing the clutch!!!!! Yea Im cool and can shift without useing the clutch. Try a no syncro 10 speed trans then we will talk, If you want to double clutch anything do it to the transfer case to ease that.!!!!

 

[m16ty]

You don't want to shift a syncro trans without useing the clutch!!!!! Yea Im cool and can shift without useing the clutch. Try a no syncro 10 speed trans then we will talk, If you want to double clutch anything do it to the transfer case to ease that.!!!!

That's what I've been saying but nobody seems to listen. If you shift your sycro trans without a clutch, pretty soon it won't shift hardly with the clutch. I've seen too many trans with the sycros shot because of clutchless shifting. The deuce trans is no Roadranger and shouldn't be shifted as such.

You can shift the deuce without the clutch if you like. Just know that you're shortening the life of your trans considerably by doing do.

 

[quickfarms]

I understand that you should not shift the duece trans without the clutch due to the syncro's

But why do they recommend against downshifting?

When I was taught to drive a truck I was taught both double clutching and clutch less shifting. I was also taught to never coast the truck out of gear, you would fail your drivers test for coasting, and always downshift to a stop.

 

[panshark]

I'll take a guess at the answer to your question, quickfarms. I understand that it is recommended against downshifting in the 1st 3 gears (ok to downshift from 5th to 4th). There's quite a jump in gears between 4th and 3rd. I've watched my driver B operate my duece like a pickup, complete with the downshifting, and I decided I didn't like that very much. With the limited resources I have, I don't want to promote any wear and tear to the clutch or transmission. I'd gladly replace drum brakes in lieu of dropping the tranny and repairing it.

Like you, I've been taught the same regarding uncontrolled stops. If my state required a CDL for duece operation and I tested in a duece, I would provide the tester with the literature advising against downshifting, and clear it ahead of time your plan to delay downshifting out of 4th gear until you are well within the recommended speed range for 3rd. I've got the speed limits per gear on one of my dash plates, YMMV. I think if you demonstrated that you knew your vehicle well and knew the safest way to operate it, the tester would go easy on your "modified" controlled stops.

Floridianson--you've got good info in your post, you definitely know your way around the truck off-road, but it sounds like 90% of it is going to go over the OP's head, he's just not to that point yet. Good info for me though!