Deuce Shifting Questions

[zeisshensoldt]

sounds like your truck likes to be in 2nd high a lot more than 1st high, I'll wager that's why you shift into it ASAP. Do you get the violent shakes at all speeds (within reason) and rpm's in 1st high? Can you give it about 1/4 throttle, and just putt along smoothly? What are you doing differently in 1st high than you are in 1st low? Have you been able to crawl around the truck, inspecting steering linkages, driveshaft flange bolts, inspecting the frame for anything out of the ordinary?

These remedies may be a far cry from what your current problem is, but familiarizing yourself with more than the cab and engine will pay dividends in the future. Maybe have a fellow SS member who is local to you do a walk-through.

I'm guessing here, but the shakes seem to be due to it wanting to stall in 1st high, but if i give it some throttle (closer to 2000rpm) it seems to spin the tires briefly with less shaking. In 1st low i'm able to let the clutch out without applying any throttle, which is why i use it over 1st high and then i just make my way through the gears until im in high range, 4th and then 5th. It takes a little while, but I know it's a heck of a lot easier on the truck.

 

[Srjeeper]

Why are you even using 1st gear at all?

The only time I use 1st. is loaded off road, or starting out loaded on an incline.

Start out in second low, split up to High and go from there. You keep jerkin the driveline like this and you'll need deep pockets and a mechanic.

These trucks are fairly forgiving up to a point, but they won't take much torquein and snapping in the drive line.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

Why are you even using 1st gear at all?

The only time I use 1st. is loaded off road, or starting out loaded on an incline.

Start out in second low, split up to High and go from there. You keep jerkin the driveline like this and you'll need deep pockets and a mechanic.

These trucks are fairly forgiving up to a point, but they won't take much torquein and snapping in the drive line.

The TM says to use 1st gear, it's not like I'm doing any of this on purpose. I'm not sitting here saying "hey let's see how fast i can break the truck i just bought." I'm simply trying to figure out if it's the trucks quirks, somethings broken or maybe it's just me being a bad driver.

 

[panshark]

ok, shrug off what Srjeeper said, everybody really does want you to get straightened out and back in business. Since you're learning how to properly start from a stopped position in a large, old truck...

You should have a goal of not spinning tires. If you've chosen the duece as a manual-transmission learning vehicle, I would recommend maybe practicing in gravel or grass. Sure, it's easier to spin tires in that, but it's merciful on the drivetrain components. Srjeeper was right about not jerking the driveline.

Do you know exactly which tires you're spinning? Is your front axle engaged? (It should not be engaged 99% of the time. It should only be engaged when you need extra traction. To be clear, leave your front axle lock turned off.)

I'm going to go out on a limb here...did the person who put this truck into your hands give you your initial shifting advice? If so, you need to visually inspect the heck outta that truck, and try to figure out what he knew and didn't tell you.

If I was taking a wild guess, I would think that you've got one of the "rare" 2x6's, the front-wheel drive version. If you didn't have a middle driveshaft, you might have to rev it high to get it moving, and might spin tires.

When I was a kid, my uncle would punch me in the shoulder everytime I used my left foot on the brake (automatice transmission). He told me to never use my left foot. Imagine my father's chagrine when he tried to teach me how to drive a manual transmission! (Because you must use both feet to get started.) Point is, make sure that everything is ok with the truck, because if you learn how to operate a truck when it's messed up, you might drive it kinda funky when it's properly repaired and you're still trying to drive it like it's broke.

Finally, I think most guys will tell you that you need to be applying throttle when you're easing off the clutch. It's what everybody does. You might hear a bunch of chatter between guys about starting off in 1st low, 1st high or 2nd low, but they will all tell you they use throttle. (Unless they're in a funeral procession.)

 

[zeisshensoldt]

ok, shrug off what Srjeeper said, everybody really does want you to get straightened out and back in business. Since you're learning how to properly start from a stopped position in a large, old truck...

You should have a goal of not spinning tires. If you've chosen the duece as a manual-transmission learning vehicle, I would recommend maybe practicing in gravel or grass. Sure, it's easier to spin tires in that, but it's merciful on the drivetrain components. Srjeeper was right about not jerking the driveline.

Do you know exactly which tires you're spinning? Is your front axle engaged? (It should not be engaged 99% of the time. It should only be engaged when you need extra traction. To be clear, leave your front axle lock turned off.)

I'm going to go out on a limb here...did the person who put this truck into your hands give you your initial shifting advice? If so, you need to visually inspect the heck outta that truck, and try to figure out what he knew and didn't tell you.

If I was taking a wild guess, I would think that you've got one of the "rare" 2x6's, the front-wheel drive version. If you didn't have a middle driveshaft, you might have to rev it high to get it moving, and might spin tires.

When I was a kid, my uncle would punch me in the shoulder everytime I used my left foot on the brake (automatice transmission). He told me to never use my left foot. Imagine my father's chagrine when he tried to teach me how to drive a manual transmission! (Because you must use both feet to get started.) Point is, make sure that everything is ok with the truck, because if you learn how to operate a truck when it's messed up, you might drive it kinda funky when it's properly repaired and you're still trying to drive it like it's broke.

Finally, I think most guys will tell you that you need to be applying throttle when you're easing off the clutch. It's what everybody does. You might hear a bunch of chatter between guys about starting off in 1st low, 1st high or 2nd low, but they will all tell you they use throttle. (Unless they're in a funeral procession.)

This is what I've gathered. When applying a lot of throttle in 1st high it feels like the rear 4 wheels spin briefly as well as some shaking, but not much OR when applying little throttle in 1st high it will shake violently as if its about to stall. Maybe I'm just going either too much throttle or too little? It has the front axle engagement switch so i don't think it's the 2x6 version. No the shifting advice wasn't given by the trucks original owner, it was an SS member.

 

[plym49]

2000 rpm is way too high for starting out. 2000 rpm will burn a clutch or spin wheels. The idea of applying the throttle as you release the clutch is not to race the engine (leave that to the drag racers), but to MAINTAIN the rpm the engine was at (probably between 800 and 1000) before you started out. See, if you add load to an idling engine (releasing the clutch to move out), you are increasing the load on the engine - so the motor will slow down, and in the worst case, stall. You just want to add enough throttle to keep the rpms the same. Smoothly release the clutch so no shatter. When your foot is off the clutch, then accelerate.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

2000 rpm is way too high for starting out. 2000 rpm will burn a clutch or spin wheels. The idea of applying the throttle as you release the clutch is not to race the engine (leave that to the drag racers), but to MAINTAIN the rpm the engine was at (probably between 800 and 1000) before you started out. See, if you add load to an idling engine (releasing the clutch to move out), you are increasing the load on the engine - so the motor will slow down, and in the worst case, stall. You just want to add enough throttle to keep the rpms the same. Smoothly release the clutch so no shatter. When your foot is off the clutch, then accelerate.

Basically, I'll be needing to apply enough throttle to compensate for the engine rpm drop when releasing the clutch? Clearly more than 1000rpm and less than 2000rpm.

 

[doghead]

You should be able to let the clutch out in first gear with no throttle at all. Then accelerate up to 2200 and shift to second.


Have you driven other manual shift vehicles before?

 

[plym49]

Basically, I'll be needing to apply enough throttle to compensate for the engine rpm drop when releasing the clutch? Clearly more than 1000rpm and less than 2000rpm.

More throttle, yes. If the engine rises above where it was at you might be applying too much throttle or you are too slow with the clutch. As DH said above, you should be able (on level ground) to release the clutch without adding throttle.

I think it is about impossible to teach someone to shift via text messages. How good would anyone of us be at it if that was how we learned how to scr3w? Fine someone local who is a good driver and have them show you. You are probably just missing a couple of subtleties.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

You should be able to let the clutch out in first gear with no throttle at all. Then accelerate up to 2200 and shift to second.


Have you driven other manual shift vehicles before?

It is absolutely impossible for my truck to be let out of 1st gear high with no throttle it will shake and stall. But for 1st gear low you can, no problems .

 

[doghead]

If you have been doing all the things you have posted, I'm concerned that your flywheel is warped, clutch glazed and pressure plate bad. That would result in "chatter" as you describe now.

There are several issues with a big truck, that do not make them the best for learning to drive a manual shift transmission.

You have not answered if you have experience with manual shift transmissions. I'll assume the answer is no. The reason I ask is that the truck you are trying to learn on is far from the easiest transmission to learn with.

I suggest you go buy a $500 Civic and learn on that first. Then move on to the deuce(after a new clutch, PP,throwout bearing and flywheel is installed).

 

[m16ty]

I wish I was closer so I could take a look at the truck and your driving. I'm still trying to figure out if the truck has a problem or you're not driving it right. I tend to think it may be a combination of both. You still haven't answered the question about your manual trans experience before you got the deuce.

Is there any member close by that could help you out? It's really hard to teach somebody how to shift on a internet forum.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

Very limited manual transmission experience. Yes, I messaged and met up with an SS member last Thursday for a wounded warriors parade. Unfortunately he left for active duty the next day so he is unable to help me with any of my problems. I'm uncertain if there are any other members close to me, but if there are PLEASE HELP ME SHIFT! Also, I just got back from a quick test run of the deuce. I tried shifting it into 1st high about 7 times at 1400-1500 rpm rev. Here are the steps i did: Dead stop, transfer case in high, shift into 2nd then into 1st, apply throttle to 1400-1500 rpm then slowly release clutch, little to no shaking, but quick slightly violent take off. Each time I did this the transmission would make a strange quick audible whine after the clutch was fully let out, basically right as the truck started to move. Also, I could hear a cracking noise each time i attempted this. Most likely something rattling, I hope!

 

[plym49]

Very limited manual transmission experience. Yes, I messaged and met up with an SS member last Thursday for a wounded warriors parade. Unfortunately he left for active duty the next day so he is unable to help me with any of my problems. I'm uncertain if there are any other members close to me, but if there are PLEASE HELP ME SHIFT! Also, I just got back from a quick test run of the deuce. I tried shifting it into 1st high about 7 times at 1400-1500 rpm rev. Here are the steps i did: Dead stop, transfer case in high, shift into 2nd then into 1st, apply throttle to 1400-1500 rpm then slowly release clutch, little to no shaking, but quick slightly violent take off. Each time I did this the transmission would make a strange quick audible whine after the clutch was fully let out, basically right as the truck started to move. Also, I could hear a strange cracking noise each time i did it, probably something banging when the truck takes off like that

OK, you do not apply the throttle before you release the clutch. That is just beating up the equipment. You appropriately increase the revs as the clutch begins to engage. As soon as you feel the clutch bite, you slightly increase throttle. Try that.

 

[TMNT]

You should be able to very easily take off in high range 1st or even 2nd with no throttle. I do it all the time. If you're revving up to 1400-1500 and then letting the clutch out you're doing it very wrong. I'm not flaming you, but something is really wrong.

You should be able to smoothly release the clutch at idle in high range 1st gear with no problem at all.

If your truck is shuddering hard in high range 1st gear at idle, your clutch and flywheel are toast.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

You should be able to very easily take off in high range 1st or even 2nd with no throttle. I do it all the time. If you're revving up to 1400-1500 and then letting the clutch out you're doing it very wrong. I'm not flaming you, but something is really wrong.

You should be able to smoothly release the clutch at idle in high range 1st gear with no problem at all.

If your truck is shuddering hard in high range 1st gear at idle, your clutch and flywheel are toast.

Can the clutch and flywheel be dead, but still work? I mean the problem lies in 1st gear high, everything else seems to work just fine. I haven't noticed any slipping, but then again i dont know what im talking about.

 

[plym49]

Without having seen your truck, but from what you have written, you have for sure stressed everything in your driveline. Yet it still all works. That is some strong American engineering.

That said, I doubt that you have not hurt something. But, since you still describe what I would categorize as poor driving technique, I would not jump to any conclusions before you get it right. And first gear (starting from a stop) is the most critical piece of it. Shifting is less demanding once you are rolling.

Try what I and others have suggested - don;t feed any throttle until the clutch begins to grab - not before.

 

[TMNT]

Just a thought: does your truck roll easily and without unusual noises? If you have it rolling at 10-20 MPH and you push in the clutch on level ground, does it keep rolling along and gradually slow down, or does it fairly quickly slow or stop?

I'm just wondering if you have a brake dragging or something else in the drive train that is bound up. Are you sure the parking brake is released and it isn't hung up or dragging?

Drive it around a bit and then feel the hubs, diffs, and parking brake drum to see if anything is hot. The hubs will be warm, about a 100 degrees or so, but not too hot to touch.

If anything is too hot to touch after driving 5-10 miles, that's a problem.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

Just a thought: does your truck roll easily and without unusual noises? If you have it rolling at 10-20 MPH and you push in the clutch on level ground, does it keep rolling along and gradually slow down, or does it fairly quickly slow or stop?

I'm just wondering if you have a brake dragging or something else in the drive train that is bound up. Are you sure the parking brake is released and it isn't hung up or dragging?

Drive it around a bit and then feel the hubs, diffs, and parking brake drum to see if anything is hot. The hubs will be warm, about a 100 degrees or so, but not too hot to touch.

If anything is too hot to touch after driving 5-10 miles, that's a problem.

I don't think I have a brake dragging. I drove it 20 or so miles the other day with a bit of brake usage and then parked it and felt the hubs. They were warm, but nothing to be concerned about. I usually coast to a stop and it seems to roll just fine.

 

[Katahdin]

Z, you should update your profile location so SS members can reach out to you if they're nearby. I believe you're in Florida, not Maine, correct me if I'm wrong. There's a lot of SS members in Florida.