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Pull starting a mep-016e with no battery installed?

pahunter

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Lock Haven/pa
It starts fairly easily with the pull rope but I've only tried it with the batteries installed. It would be nice to be able to run it without the batteries all together if necessary. Is it safe to do so? I don't want to experiment and try it for fear of damaging something.
 

Isaac-1

Well-known member
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SW, Louisiana
I would say it is likely not safe, I suspect you would fry the battery charging regulator, which is not cheap (around $100 new on ebay).

Note it is safe to run a MEP-016D without battery since it has no charging system

Ike
 

derf

Member
926
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Location
LA
I would say it is likely not safe, I suspect you would fry the battery charging regulator, which is not cheap (around $100 new on ebay).

Note it is safe to run a MEP-016D without battery since it has no charging system

Ike
Can you just disconnect the regulator? I've run my 016E without a battery. I've never run it with a battery. I don't think it will hurt anything but do it at your own risk as I am not sure.

My 016D has a charging system, I think. It runs the electric pump. See pic. Isn't that a rectifier and/or regulator next to the fuel pump?


 

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ETN550

New member
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Knoxville, TN
Correct. I recommend adding a regulator or replacing the rectifier with a regulator/rectifier.

Then I think some sort of device is needed to absorb and dampen the incoming pulses and give the regulator a reference point. Running a regulator witout a battery or capacitor is risky at best.

the British and other motorcycles uses simple regulators and they dumped the excess output to ground vis heat sinks. Many of the small engine regs are the same. On those systems the motorcycle aftermarket is very successful using a large capacitor in place of the battery for racing and has done so for 40years. So I do believe a capacitor will suffice if a battery is not used and a regulator is added.

Anything to smooth out the delivery to the float assembly would be good.

BYW does anyone know where to buy these floats new and how much? There is a Bosch number on them but i never found a source. Probably expensive.
 

pahunter

Member
33
1
8
Location
Lock Haven/pa
Thank you for all the responses.
I've run my 016E without a battery. I've never run it with a battery.
derf, Did you mean 016E or D?
A 016E is closer to a 016b than a D correct?

Munchies, if you find a cheap solution for this it would be great. Having a couple more 12v batteries around or (1 - 24V) in reserve wouldn't be a bad idea either.
 

derf

Member
926
13
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Location
LA
I've never had a 24V battery (or 12V) source connected to my 016E or 016D.

016B is Onan powered, no pull rope. 701A is 016B with ASK enclosure.
016E is 10HP Yanmar upgrade kit for 016B, with pull rope and sometimes in 701A ASK enclosure.

016D is 7HP Yanmar Diesel upgrade for 016A gas gens.

My 016E came in an ASK enclosure and the copper stud on the brand new starter was misthreaded.

I think a 24V reg from a 016B would work on the 016D. It would be inexpensive for me since I have a couple extras around, one from the 016E.
I'm planning to couple the 10HP Yanmar to a 017 gen head.
 

derf

Member
926
13
18
Location
LA
Just keep in mind that the battery charging regulators run $100+

I should sell one of mine and get another SX460.

I have a couple left over from 016B projects. I'm thinking about putting one on the 016D just so the fuel pump will get decent regulated power.
 

ETN550

New member
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Location
Knoxville, TN
Can you just disconnect the regulator? I've run my 016E without a battery. I've never run it with a battery. I don't think it will hurt anything but do it at your own risk as I am not sure.

My 016D has a charging system, I think. It runs the electric pump. See pic. Isn't that a rectifier and/or regulator next to the fuel pump?
The E has 24vdc systems for fuel supply and solenoid to run. I do not believe it needs 24vdc to make A/C output at the lugs, but I'm not 100% certain. the D definitely does not need the 24vdc to run or make A/C.

If the E runs okay without a battery then the existing rectifer / regulator must be working okay. However, it is very dicey to operate with no reference on the regulator such as a battery. The regulator must react and stabilize the voltage based on the use of the fuel pump and holding solenoid and as we know the fuel pump is pulsing away. So that poor regulator is trying to maintain the voltage as the load oscilates. The battery dampens it out and presents afairly uniform load to the regulator. Even a dead battery, probably not a super dead or shorted one, though..

Now having said that the regulator could be protected by turning off the input. And the engine will run if the speed control is made to operate mechanically, which is easy if the little black lockout device on the red shutdown lever is removed. The mechanical off on levers can be adjusted to get 60 hz in the mechanical non solenoid mode. However, without the electric fuel pump pushing fuel to the injection pump the system may have problems.

I did a test a while back. I had an L100 Yanmar out and bolted to a 2x10 with a Chinese ST generator running at 1800 rpm. It was belt driven and the engine was at 2400rpm. I used one of the facet pumps and the standard B fuel filter and drew fuel from a 5 gal can. I turned off the fuel pump as it was running and to my amazement the engine continued running. I let it run 20 minutes with the pump off then I pulled the hose and put my thumb over it. After another 5 minutes the engine finally showed signs of instability and quit running. When I released my thumb there was a lot of suction. Now I know this is bad for an injection pump, and I do not like having the possibility of air getting into the injection pump because air in the injection line can ruin the injector tip and even blow it off and then ruin the engine.

So, yes it is possible to run the E without 24vdc and all systems off. Is it good for it? No. Will it tolerate it? Yes but for how long? Maybe a long time.... I do not know. If it had a gravity feed fuel tank that would be very beneficial. Complete L100 fuel tank assemblies with filter and petcock are on ebay for $55.
 
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