Anyone running a front locker?

[162tcat]

I'm considering adding a front locker to increase my traction in rough terrain and snow. I'm thinking of putting it in the front since it is only engaged on demand and shouldn't have a negative effect on road or most other conditions when the sprague is not engaged. I don't want to add it to the back since I think it would increase the pushing effect when turning off road and in snow. With how much weight is in the front I think that would make the most difference anyway.

So, who is running one in the front and what are your thoughts?

My rig is a 67 M54A2 on Michelin 16.00r20 XZL's

thanks

 

[M920]

What type locker are you considering? I assume a Detroit?

 

[162tcat]

What type locker are you considering? I assume a Detroit?

yes, Detroit locker.

 

[M920]

I had a Detroit in the front of one of my trucks some years ago and it worked ok. It had a manual shift front axle engagement, no sprague, but it had lockout hubs. So I'm not sure how it would act on a 800 series truck or other 5ton. I did have to run with the front axle disengaged, except for when I really needed it, because it made steering very hard with the front engaged. If I disengaged the front wheel drive, even with the hubs locked in, I could not tell that it had a locker and it drove fine.
If you're planning on driving on snow frequently though, I would not recommend a Detroit locker in the front at all! It drove like crap and on snow covered roads and in some cases I ended up locking just one hub in, just to make it somewhat more drivable, but this was of course far from ideal.

 

[162tcat]

I had a Detroit in the front of one of my trucks some years ago and it worked ok. It had a manual shift front axle engagement, no sprague, but it had lockout hubs. So I'm not sure how it would act on a 800 series truck or other 5ton. I did have to run with the front axle disengaged, except for when I really needed it, because it made steering very hard with the front engaged. If I disengaged the front wheel drive, even with the hubs locked in, I could not tell that it had a locker and it drove normally.
If you're planning on driving on snow frequently though, I would not recommend a Detroit locker in the front at all! It drove like crap and on snow covered roads and in some cases I ended up locking just one hub in, that made it somewhat more drivable, but was of course far from ideal.

thanks for the input. The worst thing about the 5 tons is lack of locker options! The only one I know of is the Detroit and the extremely rare factory air lockers that everyone seems to keep secret. An ARB or similar air locker sure would be nice. I may try the front locker for a while and if I hate it, I'll just pull it and put it in one of the rears.

 

[91W350]

Not in a five ton, but in my old M715. It would really bind up the drivelines in packed surfaces, it was also hard to steer in mud, but I also had a rear Detroit. When climbing the rock ledges though, it was amazing! For most driving, snow and mud, I would stay with the open differential.

 

[162tcat]

Not in a five ton, but in my old M715. It would really bind up the drivelines in packed surfaces, it was also hard to steer in mud, but I also had a rear Detroit. When climbing the rock ledges though, it was amazing! For most driving, snow and mud, I would stay with the open differential.

I've been looking options to increase traction without totally killing drivability but there aren't many for the 5 tons I guess. Every year some of my buddies and I head to the mountains and see how far we can push up the logging roads in the snow. It gets deep, we go until the lead rig can't push anymore then the snowmobiles are unloaded and the fun continues. I was wanting to build up the 5 ton for this trip next year but limited aftermarket support is killing this idea fast. I can chain up the front but with 53's on it, chains won't fit on the back.

I guess the dodge ram will continue to make this trip, unless ARB wants to start making 5 ton air lockers...

 

[FASTNOVA]

I thought that is why you needed a locker for the snow and mud? I can understand driving on a icy road with lockers is a no no. I was thinking about putting lockers in mine, been stuck in the mud and thought "if only it had locker's".

 

[quickfarms]

If you run a locker in the front you need locking hubs. Without locking hubs the truck will be hard to steer both on and off road, and your front ties will wear quickly. You may also see an increase in your turning radius from the added drag.

My jeep with a power lock in the front axle is a real bear to steer when I lock the hubs and turning radius is greatly increased,

 

[162tcat]

If you run a locker in the front you need locking hubs. Without locking hubs the truck will be hard to steer both on and off road, and your front ties will wear quickly. You may also see an increase in your turning radius from the added drag.

My jeep with a power lock in the front axle is a real bear to steer when I lock the hubs and turning radius is greatly increased,

I don't see why I would need locking hubs. The transfer case will only engage the front axle when the rears slip, which would be in a loose terrain type of situation. The rest of the time, such as normal on road driving it would be just coasting along disengaged. Unless I am missing something here, I really don't see why front locking hubs would be needed. They would be nice to have but I'm sure those cost over a grand and really do nothing other than add one more part to fail.

 

[quickfarms]

I don't see why I would need locking hubs. The transfer case will only engage the front axle when the rears slip, which would be in a loose terrain type of situation. The rest of the time, such as normal on road driving it would be just coasting along disengaged. Unless I am missing something here, I really don't see why front locking hubs would be needed. They would be nice to have but I'm sure those cost over a grand and really do nothing other than add one more part to fail.

On a normal open differential the outside tire is free to rotate with a locker the inside and outside tire are connected and it requires considerable force to turn the outside tire faster than the inside tire.

Below is a thread on how to determine if a truck has a locker. Read post 2.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showpost.php?p=1308837

 

[162tcat]

On a normal open differential the outside tire is free to rotate with a locker the inside and outside tire are connected and it requires considerable force to turn the outside tire faster than the inside tire.

Below is a thread on how to determine if a truck has a locker. Read post 2.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showpost.php?p=1308837

link http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Detroit-Locker-automatic-lockers.htm

"The Detroit Locker is an automatic locking differential designed to lock both wheels of the axle together automatically with power input, when forward or reverse torque is applied, so that both wheels are providing 100% power to the ground. This action creates essentially a "spool" that solidly connects the axle shafts together. When torque is not being applied, the Detroit Locker is allowed to unlock, permitting a differentiation variance in wheel speed while negotiating turns."

So my understanding is that when the sprag has not engaged the front axle, there would be no power input and therefore no locking of the front axle, correct?

 

[162tcat]

All of the examples given so far have been vehicles that have a transfer case that is shifted and "locked" into 4WD thus, having input torque applied to the front axle at all times causing the locker to lock. The sprag transfer case wont apply input torque to the front axle until the rear slips, then once traction is regained should unlock.

Has anyone ran one in a 5 ton with the sprag transfer case?

 

[quickfarms]

The Detroit will unlock on an unpowered axle but the force required to unlock it will cause issues with the on road performance and that is the reason that locking hubs are required. If you listen carefully you can hear the Detroit make a clicking sound. In theory it should work but the practical application is that it is not a good idea.

I have run a cross a lot of trucks with Detroit's in the rear axle but I have yet to find one with a Detroit in the front axle.

 

[rosco]

The only thing better then one locker in the rear, is to have two back there. My semi highway tractor has two, and I am on ice 7 months of the year. The traction that I have is night and day difference, over non-locker vehicles. Its driveable during all seasons. Yes I know what your talking about..... 6 x 6's. But untill you get them in both rears, your conversations about the front is academic. However.... once you have them in both rears, and you have the sprague, I would ageree, you can put one in the front too. That said, just put a full set of jewelry on (chains), and about 10,000# in the back, and you will be able to drive circles anyone that has a full set of lockers. Chains trump lockers! They are a lot cheaper, but you do get your hands a little dirty, and they are far cheaper to repair.

 

[162tcat]

The only thing better then one locker in the rear, is to have two back there. My semi highway tractor has two, and I am on ice 7 months of the year. The traction that I have is night and day difference, over non-locker vehicles. Its driveable during all seasons. Yes I know what your talking about..... 6 x 6's. But untill you get them in both rears, your conversations about the front is academic. However.... once you have them in both rears, and you have the sprague, I would ageree, you can put one in the front too. That said, just put a full set of jewelry on (chains), and about 10,000# in the back, and you will be able to drive circles anyone that has a full set of lockers. Chains trump lockers! They are a lot cheaper, but you do get your hands a little dirty, and they are far cheaper to repair.

Rosco,

I agree about chains being best but I can't put chains on the rear due to the limited space between my rear axles running the 53's, I can chain up the front though. I drive a Mack tractor for work with a lockable power divider and air lockers in the rear axles and while it gets amazing traction when all locked up, it really wants to push the front when turning on the slick stuff. I usually run it open or just lock the power divider if things are getting slick when crossing the pass.

I may get the detriot for the front of the 5 ton and see how I like it. If I hate it, I'll just swap it to the rear.


Does anybody have a good source (cheap!) for the detroit locker?

 

[Maxgussam]

redbarncustoms.net
They look like they have everything you will need to add the lockers to your truck.

 

[jcappeljr]

I have a usmc m923 for sale with Detroit lockers in the rears.

 

[rosco]

162tcat: Yes, chains, lockers, big tires, horsepower.... Non of it "fool proof". We all have to use discression & common sense, to get the best results.

 

[162tcat]

162tcat: Yes, chains, lockers, big tires, horsepower.... Non of it "fool proof". We all have to use discression & common sense, to get the best results.

I agree, my 5 ton doesn't really have horsepower though! I'm going to buy a Detroit for the front and give it a try. I'll be sure to report back and let everyone know my experience. In the meantime, if anyone out there is running a Detroit in the front, I'd love to hear your opinion.