Nelson Off-Road Tours Build Thread

[tamangel]

have you discussed your project face to face w/ BLM yet? hate for you to get too far along and then find some sort of paperwork problem with the Feds..

Mike W

******

 

[acme66]

Can't seem to get a response to written questions, will start calling and making a pest of myself this week. Growing increasingly gun-shy about trying to doing things the right way however.

-Ken

 

[tamangel]

probably shouldn't use the tern *** shy when talking to any public agency

more info from my friend:

"...Many don't seem to understand that the reason for the rules (BLM, FS, ***, etc.) are for the protection and safety of the public he will engage in the tours... Any (permit/paperwork) fees will be required to be sufficient to cover the BLM's cost of administering the permit. An OMB circular requires that any person who tends to make a profit off of use of federal facilities or lands must provide reimbursement to the federal agency for their expenses. This may be even more important now due to pending federal budget restraints...."

Good Luck, looks like the closest BLM office to you is in Missoula.. may be worth it to go down there and talk to them in person..sounds like a good 160 mile cruise in your truck..
http://www.blm.gov/mt/st/en/fo/missoula_field_office.html

Mike W

*******
always wanted to visit the USFS museum there...

 

[acme66]

Your friend's attitude is one I am becoming all to familier with, ask a few questions and they start to assume you are trying to cheat the system or that you are stupid. The sanctimonious little canned answers I have gotten from MDOT and the FS are so irritating. Thanks for cut and pasting that regulation back to me, but I wrote you with specific questions about how I can meet that reg. It is like they do it automatically in hopes you will go away. For 3 weeks I have been trying to get a response from BLM using the format they have listed on their page to contact them and nothing. Their site gives you next to nothing about the commercial end of BLM, doesn't even really tell you to contact them about it. Knowing that I have yet another bureaucracy full of people who only have the power to say no or ask their supervisor (thus starting the reg c and p all over again) is wearisome. I have to remind MDOT every time I call that I didn't call to try and get around the safety rules, but to see if they have decided what contradictory set of safety rules I have to follow...

It is a neat museum, if you make it down let me know, I will buy you a beer.

-Ken

 

[tamangel]

I didn't think you would take it that way..don't shoot the messenger here....I'm not on the .GOV payroll..just trying to assist....I saw him just telling you the requirements..Since you never said you got any answers back from them, I, for one, thought you didn't have a clue as to what hoops you might have to jump through..You are assuming alot from no contact from them...I get that you are frustrated at no return communication...so..go talk to them..but leave that , 'you guys are all alike..' attitude in the car/truck when you go into to see them and discuss...otherwise you will just have a pre-emptive, self-fullfiling prophecy that supports your apparent mindset... but then again, of course, just my 2 cents..

Mike W

*******

 

[acme66]

Maybe I am. I will watch my 'tude more closely.

-Ken

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

I want the spare back in the rack and was planning on moving the bed back to do it. I had all the mud flaps off when the neighbor stops by to see the truck. Now he is the type of guy who is an *expert* at everything but this time he was right. When I tell him what I am doing he asks why I don't just move the intake stack forward. Um, well, why don't I? So I did. Loosened the first boot clamp at the air cleaner canister, pivoted the whole stack out some and cinched it back down. I stripped the vent line from the stack and flipped the bottom mount over so that it bolts to the inside edge of the cab. I used a 3/4" PVC spacer to get the distance I needed.
View attachment 421844

I then took the top mount off and to the vice. I reworked the ears so that it looks like a man going to one knee with his other leg out behind him. I slotted the rear hole and bolted it back to the cab.
View attachment 421845

Moving the vent line to the other side of the stack was easy and keeps it hidden better.
View attachment 421846View attachment 421856

A test lift of the tire illustrated the boom wasn't up to the task really. I added another tube clamp to the back of the hand winch and hooked a strap up and over to brace it better. It picked the tire up but clearly it didn't want to. I must be missing something to keep the pulley at the end of the boom, so I chained it.
View attachment 421847View attachment 421850View attachment 421851

I got it in and it fit fine fully inflated. I will need to find a way to rework the boom and a way to hold the tire in. For the moment I have the lift cable wrapping around the tire and hooked to the rack to hold it in. It will need something better before I drive it however. As always I had help with the project.
View attachment 421854

When I put the mud flaps back on I spaced the front set forward 1 1/2" with more PVC so they don't drag on the tires anymore.
View attachment 421855

It was a good day.

-Ken

PS: Quick question, your 5 ton has been sitting for a week and you go to start it, 55 degrees outside... how long does it crank before coming to life?

You have the trolley upside down. A chainfall attaches to the eye.

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

 

[acme66]

Thanks for the pictures! I picked up a small chainfall for the purpose but I can say, if you reenforce the hand winch by adding an additional lower mount it will lift that tire easy. I think I would swap the cable for the next size larger but it would work in a pinch with no winch. Just flip the mount and jam it at the end.

USFS and BLM: I never did get a hold of the Head BLM guy in the Dillon MT office but I spoke with his people and to get the permit process for that road started. The estimate I was given was 6 months with environmental impact studies and the whole works. I contacted the VC courthouse plat office to request maps for the route and they conversationally asked what I was doing. When I told her she said "that's not a BLM road, you don't need a permit to drive that road". They sent me map pdf's and I sent one to the person I was talking to and they agreed that technically I don't need to do the full impact study/permit but thought it was a 'good idea'. I declined. I am not sure if he thought I was doing something off the road or if he got confused about which road I was inquiring about or if he just looked at a map and saw that the road is in BLM land and thus assumed. Most of them would be just BLM roads, but because this one used to have a town at the top it was incorporated in the 1880's. The oversight would have been caught eventually when the resource officer went to examine my plan or as soon as our plan went across the big dog's desk. Needless to say the last roadblock to starting up, the Federal permitting process has just melted away.

Swapped my dryer blowoff valve last night and put a new canister and filter on it. The funny blow-down didn't go away. I guess I get to be the lucky guy who has to pull his dryer apart to clean/change that valve inside. You know, the one behind the honking big spring. That should be fun.

-Ken

 

[tamangel]

great follow-up...nothing like getting the correct info......eventually......BLM should have had the correct info in the beginning..poor...glad that you followed thru..so whose road is it then, county? and if so, no probs with them and your proposed operation..?

again, good follow-up..

Mike W

******

 

[acme66]

All of the seats have been modified (to facilitate seatbelts) and bolted in. One of the modifications they are insisting on is driveline hoops, I guess they have never drilled through the bed of a 923. Having tested my top bow idea in wood I bought the steel and have the uprights and most of the side racks built. I need to call around and find a place to ring-roll my top bars. I want 4-6 inch crown in 8.5 feet but it is 1.5x2 tubing in 3/16. I don't see how we can bend it evenly. I toyed with the idea of jacking up the 923 and setting a front tire on the metal up on some blocks but for now I am calling that plan "B".

-Ken

 

[acme66]

Seats, belts, sides and exhaust are done. Took her for a spin and found some issues but for the most part it all works as it should.


Still need to curve my top bars and edge it then I can pop on down to the custom awning place and have a rubber/canvas top made for it.

-Ken

 

[acme66]

Managed to work in a lot of progress in the last few days. Finally worked out with the state of MT what my intrastate MDOT designation will be. You are now looking at a 16+ passenger limousine. Yea baby! Why not, they turn anything into a limo these days. It really simplified things and it means I know longer have to argue with them about installing an escape hatch into a canvas roof. Yep a full escape hatch, up to code and everything, in a canvas roof... with open sides. All the seats and belts are in, sides built and top bows bent. As soon as I can get those bolted up we can order a canvass top.

Made great strides on the wiring. I had put relays in a while back but now I have a pair of 24 to12 volt 30amp converters installed along with a full fuse panel and terminal strip to tap off for the various accessories. One of the 30 converters is dedicated just to electric trailer brakes, the other drives the PA system, sound system, dash power ports, CB and GPS speedometer with taps for the twin camera system (back-up and passenger view). I think it is a lot to ask of one Chinese 30amp converter so I have ordered a 3rd to move all the PA and sound systems off to their own dedicated line. So far those huge AC solid state relays haven't given me any trouble on 24V DC but we wired it to make replacing them if they do simple. All the converters and relays are mounted to a massive aluminum heat-sink under the passenger seat.

I relocated the exhaust under the bed exiting to the rear and while I can see where it could be better the system works and I am happy. Didn't quiet down the cab as much as I hoped but in the bed it really did. Did a separate thread on that to make searching for it simpler later.

Parts come in to modify the air cleaner system today so by this weekend I should know if and how much the better airflow effects motor performance. I will put a separate thread on what and how in the 5ton modifications side.

The video is a walk through of the seats, a look at the top bows and a peak at what happens when you violate one of the commandments of big trucks and back up without looking behind first.

-Ken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVaNrVxAYbY

 

[acme66]

Top Bows and Parade Duty

Got all the top bows installed though they will have to come back out for painting. Gives you about 6 foot 3 inches of head room while walking around. I know it is a compromise but I think I can live with that. None of the bows line up with the seats so even unbuckled nobody is going to be launched into a rail. Found most of my air leak is a rear gladhand so unless the valves are easy to rebuild (leaking out the stem) I plan on swapping to a modern teflon ball valve. Truck is all dolled up for her big unveiling in the town parade tomorrow. I have done an 8 y/o's birthday party and given our 4th grade class a trip around town but this one is the real 'coming out'.

 

[insanejecke]

that's a nice Limo you got there

 

[acme66]

The parade and car show was a big hit. Our passengers were thrilled with the ride and the crowd loved the truck. I can say the truck is not a fan of slow speed maneuvering on blacktop however. Lots of tire scrub and protest noises from the rear suspension parts. No prizes in the car show but I had the truck open for people to climb in and I bet 200 or more made the trip up the stairs to check out the cab and grab a picture. Always great to talk with the guys who drove and worked on these things because they have great off the book stories.

-Ken

 

[acme66]

Not much has been happening on the truck. I picked up some fender flare material for the bed and put on some extra mudflaps in the front to help keep things cleaner. Spoke to the site manager where we would like to locate and load from and they have agreed to rent us a spot for 5% of gross. Sort of the only deal on the table and it doesn't seem too bad. If we kick major ass well then the following year we will look into other options, if not well at least I am not out a standing chunk of cash each month.

Still working on securing spare rubber for the drive tires as I think all the maneuvering is going to eat tires faster than average. Also we are still going round and round with loading strategies. I was leaning towards a lift gate if I could overcome the speed issues but the insurance company said absolutely no way. Then we were just going to build a towable staircase with a folding ramp but then how would I get someone in a wheel chair out of the truck in an emergency or if some moron parks the ramp in. Now I am looking at building a folding bed mounted stairs, like an attic stairs but more robust and wider. Not sure how I feel about telling disabled people no and the legalities... The other tour company, the ones with the fire truck, they use only stairs as well. Speaking of the fire truck, had our first run in with him. Takes the idea of anyone giving tours of any sort as a personal offense despite us being night and day in terms of operation. That is going to be fun.

Ken

 

[Reckless]

Very cool idea!

I was on Eastern's website the other day and saw this. It's pretty similar to what your doing, and looks like it could work out very good for you! I'm not sure if you have seen it but it could help you with your design or give you a few ideas

http://www.easternsurplus.net/sora.html

 

[max1008]

eastern made the ones for six flags

 

[acme66]

Been a while and the truck was parked while we made a whirl-wind Eastern tour to see the 150th Gettysburg event but now I am back on it. Business insurance came out to just under $600 a year. That covers the tour company, the youtube channels and the furniture we make. Not bad. We hope to operate on a limited scale about a week from now for 2 weeks in VC. Introduce the town to the truck and test run our operation. Some updated pictures: