M923 upgrade to M925 need advice

[jedawson1]

I need advice, in staying with military standards...

I have a 1986, M923 in great shape that I want to put a winch on. So I purchased a M925 on the cheap that has rust cancer on several parts of the bed and cab and mechanically it is not up to par with my M923, so I plan on moving the winch and parts to my M923 upgrading it to a M925 and selling/parting off the rusted truck.

With that said, my question for you is this: Did the military ever add winches to the M923 trucks in fleet? If so, how did they handle the data plate, did they create a new data plate?
I prefer to keep the truck in original military operating condition and want to know what I should do with my data plate situation when I move the winch. I don't want a M923 data plate on a winch truck if I can help it.

Thank You to all that lend your expertise.

 

[juanprado]

I don't know the official answer but I have seen lots of Marine Corps trucks on GL that had all the set ups for the winch except the actual winch with M923 data plates. I would be curious if someone with the Marines could chime in?

 

[jedawson1]

bump, where are our data plate experts?

 

[emmado22]

In my time, it was not done. big items like trucks are issued by NSN. Your unit was authorized 5 non winch trucks and 2 winch trucks, being 2 different NSN's. Just because you wanted to have a 3rd truck with a winch, you couldnt just go add the parts. By doing so, it changed the NSN, and that would be come a MTOE issue (MTOE is a big list of items you unit needed to perform it's mission. Changing it usually took several years. MTOE changes were a huge deal. The only exception to this was for HMMWV's.. The M998 was the non winch truck, the M1038 was the exact same truck with the 6 or 9K winch added. 2 Seperate NSN's for 2 seperate vehicles. This happened for all versions of the trucks. Later on (say 2001 on) HMMWV's could get the hydraulic winch, (a pretty easy bolt on kit that 2 guys could install in a few hours) so Uncle Sam stopped differentiating between winch and non winch models. The HMMWV is the only FOV I know this was done on. The big trucks stayed seperate.

 

[jedawson1]

Bump, anyone else have any feedback/experience on this?

 

[camoyj7]

I don't know the official answer but I have seen lots of Marine Corps trucks on GL that had all the set ups for the winch except the actual winch with M923 data plates. I would be curious if someone with the Marines could chime in?

How do you tell if it was a Marine Corps trucks? I found a m923 with all of the winch stuff less winch.

 

[pctrans]

Mine came like that, USMC truck with guts and a 923 data plate. Put a winch on, and will update the plate when I find one, since it was originally manufactured as a 925A1.

 

[jedawson1]

Should I just swap the data plates when I move the winch? Wouldn't that conflict with the numbers on the frame? Or is the data plate it for ID?

 

[jedawson1]

In my time, it was not done. big items like trucks are issued by NSN. Your unit was authorized 5 non winch trucks and 2 winch trucks, being 2 different NSN's. Just because you wanted to have a 3rd truck with a winch, you couldnt just go add the parts. By doing so, it changed the NSN, and that would be come a MTOE issue (MTOE is a big list of items you unit needed to perform it's mission. Changing it usually took several years. MTOE changes were a huge deal. The only exception to this was for HMMWV's.. The M998 was the non winch truck, the M1038 was the exact same truck with the 6 or 9K winch added. 2 Seperate NSN's for 2 seperate vehicles. This happened for all versions of the trucks. Later on (say 2001 on) HMMWV's could get the hydraulic winch, (a pretty easy bolt on kit that 2 guys could install in a few hours) so Uncle Sam stopped differentiating between winch and non winch models. The HMMWV is the only FOV I know this was done on. The big trucks stayed seperate.

Thanks for your feed back, I noticed another active thread about dates on data plates. Between what your telling me and Carnac's comments on the other threaf, it looks to be a big no no on swoping plates, and it appears upgrades were not common at all. I can only base that on your comment and the fact no one else chimed in with evidence to support it happening. I appreciate you sharing your experience.

 

[emmado22]

No problem.

 

[Beerslayer]

Something to keep in mind when considering adding a hydraulic winch to an M923 is that there is not much frame clearance on the side of the transmission where the PTO has to go. You will probably have to jack up the cab, take the engine and transmission loose, and jack them up and sideways away from the frame.

It is much more difficult and time consuming than it looks.

 

[jedawson1]

Thanks for the heads up Beerslayer. I am in deep now, now way to turn back, I was hoping to get away with dropping the transmission to add the PTO. Will have to take it one step at a time.
If any other nuggets of info come to mind, let me know.

Thank You

 

[Beerslayer]

Dropping the transmission would do it. Take pictures!

 

[BKubu]

Convert your truck to an M925 by adding a winch...find a blank dataplate (they are around)...and re-stamp it with your original VIN. The only real problem...that 99.9% of people won't notice...is your VIN will start with C523...instead of C525 for the w/w winch dropside cargo. MAKE SURE you keep your original VIN as that is most important regardless of how you convert your truck. Your title must correspond to the original chassis, not what you converted it to.

 

[jcappeljr]

The frame should have a half moon cut out on top.It is a real tight fit.I removed 2 hyd. set ups from two marine trucks.Its a pain in the a$$ job.

 

[tobyS]

My truck seems to have been opposite. I have a pump and tank in place but no PTO or front half of the driveshaft (pulled spline apart). Must have been altered at a "rebuild". But my nameplate says 923. I'm looking for the PTO at a low cost if anyone has a spare?

 

[jedawson1]

My truck seems to have been opposite. I have a pump and tank in place but no PTO or front half of the driveshaft (pulled spline apart). Must have been altered at a "rebuild". But my nameplate says 923. I'm looking for the PTO at a low cost if anyone has a spare?

Your lucky to have the parts you have. A full winch kit is hard to find and very expensive to piece together. I have a good M923A1 so I picked up a non running slightly rusted 925 on GL that turned out to be a runner. I'm moving the winch to my good truck and then selling the parts truck(runs and drives) at scrap price. I paid less for the 925 than I could find a winch kit for.

 

[tobyS]

My need is for making a dump bed with/from the cargo bed. I can go electric however. How about PM me a price for the remainder? Nice truck on your photo (I'm partial to Michelin). Toby

 

[tobyS]

I'll go compare the frame on my 923 that had the PTO to one that does not and see if I can see any difference? Making a cut in the frame would not be a fun thing to do.

 

[Scarecrow1]

Convert your truck to an M925 by adding a winch...find a blank dataplate (they are around)...and re-stamp it with your original VIN. The only real problem...that 99.9% of people won't notice...is your VIN will start with C523...instead of C525 for the w/w winch dropside cargo. MAKE SURE you keep your original VIN as that is most important regardless of how you convert your truck. Your title must correspond to the original chassis, not what you converted it to.

The man has a point that must be addressed if you have the truck titled now as a 923. how are you going to convince the DMV it is the same truck if you change the data plates ? I know the vin number will stay the same but you are changing the truck from a 923 to a 925 and the are not the same truck on anyones records State or Federal. The easiest thing to do is just add the winch and leave well enough alone.............