which is better? king pin front axle or ball joint style

[evldoer]

I'm gearing up for a duramax swap in a 1008. I need to find a ford front dana 60 because I need the dif. on the drivers side. I see a lot of kingpin axles as well as the ball joint styles, and was hoping one of you 4x4 guys can help me out by telling me which would be best.
Any other helpful info would be appreciated.

 

[tim292stro]

This is a purported "bible" on Dana 60 axles on another forum, I used it when doing the research for my XM1027 build. Generally kingpins are found to be more durable when abused, easier to replace when needed, and modifications to the Dana 60 axle are easier and more common than with a ball-joint axle.

Can I ask why you need the diff on the driver's side? Standard for GM is passenger side, which is common for both Dodge and GM including the CUCV.

 

[evldoer]

Thanks for the info.
I will be using the Allison trans and the 261xhd transferred case. This as well as all gm trucks with independent front suspension have the front driveshaft on the drivers side. Wish it wasn't the case, because its an expensive upgrade to buy a Dana 60!

 

[tim292stro]

I would almost recommend getting a used NP205 or NP271 transfer case and clocking it for the passenger-side axle. I think i read correctly that you have a 1008, which is a 4X4 already with Dana 60 in the front (passenger side diff)? Just sounds like less work that way (this comment of course takes into account that I am blind to your fabrication ability and interest).

I know about the IFS pain thing - the truck I bought for the XM1027 project is a 2WD 1.5 ton with IFS that I need to gut in order to drop in a Dana 60.

 

[steve6x6x6]

The 1978-79 ford dana 60 front lines right up the your transfercase. This axle has 12 1/2" rotors with king pins. A ford 1979 housing can be used and built with chevy 13" rotors and brakes with an up grade of 35 spline stub axles. You will have a problem with the front ABS. King pin ford dana 60 also from 1985 to 1991 and ball joint from 1992 to 1997 but these have a 3" more off set to the frame rail. I have built hundred's of dana 60 fronts over the years.

 

[doghead]

Or simply re tube your front axle to the correct side offset. (reuse the axle shafts on the opposite sides)

 

[steve6x6x6]

Or simply re tube your front axle to the correct side offset. (reuse the axle shafts on the opposite sides)

The 2008 duramax has an independent front?

 

[doghead]

He just wants the front differential on the driverside.(assuming to work with the 2008 Duramax, trans & T-case)

 

[steve6x6x6]

OK, i thought he had a duramax truck, he is swapping a duramax engine and T case in a M1008. Yes the chevy dana 60 front can be made to match on the driver side, it would be alot of work to also build a spring pad on the drive side. Or a ford 1979 front but the spring pads are 31 1/2" and the chevy is 32"

 

[doghead]

Oh, I forgot about the spring pad cut into the dif housing.

 

[evldoer]

I like the idea of clocking a 205 case to the other side, but I have a 1031 with that 205 and it is one noisy sob and I Dont like the vibration it puts out. At only 30,000 miles it shouldn't need a rebuild yet but you never know til you open it up.
I know the np205 is strong, but I wonder how it would hold up behind a duramax.
As for my fab skills, there really isn't much I can't do.

Doghead, swapping the tubes was my first idea, but after looking at the diff case, I saw that the pass. Side spring perch is incorporated into the cast housing.
Steve I will start looking into a Dana from the 78-9 fords
Thanks guys

 

[doghead]

Love that avatar pic!

 

[tim292stro]

NP271 is chain drive and used in tractor pulls - much quieter and better torque rating. Keeps the rest of the suspension stock that way...

 

[86m1028]

I like the idea of clocking a 205 case to the other side, but I have a 1031 with that 205 and it is one noisy sob and I Dont like the vibration it puts out. At only 30,000 miles it shouldn't need a rebuild yet but you never know til you open it up.
I know the np205 is strong, but I wonder how it would hold up behind a duramax.
As for my fab skills, there really isn't much I can't do.

Doghead, swapping the tubes was my first idea, but after looking at the diff case, I saw that the pass. Side spring perch is incorporated into the cast housing.
Steve I will start looking into a Dana from the 78-9 fords
Thanks guys

You could also get a ford 205 that's driver drop.

 

[tim292stro]

...but I have a 1031 with that 205 and it is one noisy sob and I Dont like the vibration it puts out. At only 30,000 miles it shouldn't need a rebuild yet but you never know til you open it up...

Well, a 30 year old truck that drove on average 1000 miles a year or about 2.75 miles a day, probably spent most of its time sitting. That's like taking the truck to the post office or grocery store every day. Probably run for shorter terms and longer terms (nature of average), and that was probably really abusive. I'd guess that M1031 may never have been in 4WD, or at best in 4WD less times than you have fingers (and even then it was probably only for training). Dis-use is the enemy of long-life, things need to move frequently to lube all surfaces, and seals will dry out crack and leak if not warmed up and splashed with lube. You probably need a rebuild - the 205 is a helical cut box, so it should be quieter than a straight cut gearbox (gears slide past each other, rather than "slapping" together).

...I know the np205 is strong, but I wonder how it would hold up behind a duramax...

Input torque rating on the NP205 is 1100 foot-pounds. If you take your peak torque value from the engine rating (not the HP value peak torque and HP are usually at different RPM vales), you will probably find that that number multiplied by the low-gear ratio and the torque converter ratio, the resulting number is probably higher than 1100 - but you'll find that you will likely only ever hit that peak torque number if you pop a manual transmission while the front of your truck is pushed up against a rock or wall (and you are keeping the Allison auto...). By the way, I'm sure you know that doing something like that is stupid .

I'm putting a Cummins 6BT diesel in the XM1027, that is being up-tuned to 352HP at the flywheel (@ 2500RPM, only 740 ft-lbs) - peak torque is developed on that engine around 1750RPM @ 815 ft-lbs (only about 270HP). Now couple that with the Eaton Fuller transmission's 7.05 first gear ratio (and toss out any mechanical losses) and I'm looking at roughly 5,750ft-lbs. The reality is, you would only push the gas pedal hard enough to see that torque if your tire and wheel was stuck between two rocks and seized (not going to move no matter what). If your truck is moving, you won't actually develop that much torque, and your not going to push the pedal so hard that your truck spins out and crashes into a ditch full of the innocent baby children and fluffy endangered bunnies, catching fire and destroying the world for all eternity... right?

At freeway speeds up-hill on gravel or sand with a headwind is where you will see the need for the most power - higher gears increase speed at the cost of torque - my same setup in 6th gear ( 0.78 ) will only provide a peak of 635ft-lbs of torque to the NP205.

It'll hold.

 

[quickfarms]

I do not think you will hear the 205 over the diesel.

 

[evldoer]

Alright fellas, you're starting to get through to my thick skull. I'm starting to like the idea of hanging the np205 on the back of that Allison.
I will be starting a new thread on the Dmax swap when that project begins. Keep your shorts on though, it will be about a month or so before I start it.
Thanks again for all the help!