Deuce Winch Stump Pulling

[UPFINN]

Well I finally tested my front winch for the first time since picking up the truck. The drum clutch lever was stuck and took a few taps with a hammer, liberal application of WD40, and running the pto to break it free.

The first 50ft to 100ft of the cable was full of kinks from a poor winding job. I wrapped the chain and hook at the end of the cable around a jackpine stump. The stump was about 12 inches in diameter and 6ft up the other 70ft of trunk had snapped and fell but was still attached. I engaged the winch and locked the brakes. The result was 13,000lbs of green steel/NDTs skidding across the lawn towards the stump, which did not move at all, and the neighbors had quite the show opcorn:

The pulling really cleaned up the kinks, and I finished winding the cable in nicely with my dad as the spotter.

Obviously the winch is overcoming the weight and traction of the truck before the stump. One of my plans was to get a snatch block to double the pulling force to 20,000lbs and tire chains, however that dosn't solve the problem of needing a spotter. I need to pull stumps around 12 inches in diameter (mainly pine) for rustic woodwork projects. It involves first digging around and cutting all the visible large anchor roots with a shovel, axe, pick, and cheap chainsaw to weaken it. The tap roots are too hard to access without killing my tools and back so I need to break those free with heavy equippment.

My backup plan is to use a 30,000lb tow strap or snatch/recovery strap with both end loops on the pintel hitch, with the tow strap forming a basket sling around a 27,000lb working load abbrassion resistant round sling which will be wrapped around the stump. No metal hardware involved, and no need for spotter. I would then engage the front axle and pull in lo range until the tires spin out, or the stump is plucked.

I have two choices. Can spend over $100 for a big snatch block, or spend around $60 for a 30,000lb strap and a 27,000lb round sling while using the savings to buy a 1/2 ton bed crane for firewood.

Which is better for pulling? Winch or Truck? Also, what is the weight rating of the front lifting shackles and can the pintel hitch handle pulling static objects? I assume the shackles and hitch are rated at 10k like the front winch and towing capacity. However, the is a difference between a 10k rolling and 10k static load and I don't know which one the ratings are based by.

I would think I would rather use the winch for pulling the truck out of bad situations than pulling objects toward it. First time winch user here!

 

[wreckerman893]

Pine trees have long tap roots and are a bear to pull out of the ground. You stand a good chance of damaging something or snapping a cable by using a winch to uproot stumps. The winch is built to recover the vehicle not to pull stumps with.

 

[73m819]

If you do use the winch to pull stumps, rig so that the cable goes over the top of the stump, this will give you more leverage

 

[UPFINN]

Pine trees have long tap roots and are a bear to pull out of the ground. You stand a good chance of damaging something or snapping a cable by using a winch to uproot stumps. The winch is built to recover the vehicle not to pull stumps with.

I think I figured that out the first time I tested it. Lots of processes involved, spotter, safety, and potential to break something. Looks like the tow strap is the way to go.

Usually I would buy cedar stumps which were easily removed with a chainsaw due to the flared support roots being above the ground. Too bad they are around $100 each. Since that is pricy and there are no cedar stumps around here I can cut myself, I figured I could try small pine stumps. Unfortuneately the flared roots are below ground most times.

 

[m16ty]

Usually I would buy cedar stumps which were easily removed with a chainsaw due to the flared support roots being above the ground. Too bad they are around $100 each. Since that is pricy and there are no cedar stumps around here I can cut myself, I figured I could try small pine stumps. Unfortuneately the flared roots are below ground most times.

You're having to buy stumps? Around here you have to pay somebody to remove them and take them (usually quite a bit of money). What are you using the stumps for?

As WM said, pulling stumps can require quite a bit of force. I've seen big bulldozers struggle with small stumps before.

 

[ridingshotgun]

Running my own heavy equipment, I can tell you that it is much easier to uproot a complete tree either by pushing it or pulling it than it is to cut the same tree and push out the stump. You can always gain more leverage by getting you push/pull point as high on the tree as possible. Once it starts to go, the tree will leverage itself out of the ground. This of course depends on the type of tree. Most cedars around here uproot really easily, but many evergreens will snap off before the tap root breaks or dislodges. m16ty is right, small stumps give you no leverage to work with, and often you have to do a lot of digging around the stump just to get it out. Good luck with your project and post some pics or videos when you get your system all figured out.

 

[UPFINN]

You're having to buy stumps? Around here you have to pay somebody to remove them and take them (usually quite a bit of money). What are you using the stumps for?

As WM said, pulling stumps can require quite a bit of force. I've seen big bulldozers struggle with small stumps before.

I use the stumps as table and chair legs. Makes very cool furniture that can be sold for a good price.

The stumps I buy are either removed by hand (takes ages) or are grabbed out with heavy machinery and cleaned. I still have to debark, wash, and plane the bottoms flat. I've debated on doing a stump removal side business, but I'm concerned at what the customer would think when I pull up in a 71' M35 with only a chainsaw, hand tools, and pressure washer, and then proceed to spend several hours struggling to extract it. I just threw an add on craigslist for free pine stump removal.

I have quite a few photos of what I do that I took with my ipod (I know I know, bad quality) but most times I don't have time to grab a real camera while working.

 

[m16ty]

OK, I think I understand now. The $100 price includes removing the stumps and cleaning the dirt off. It can be a pretty good chore getting the dirt off once you get the stump out of the ground. I've done it before trying to get the dirt off so they will burn but it's easier just to dig a hole and bury them to get rid of them.

 

[UPFINN]

Here is what I build.

 

[m1010plowboy]

I could sell those! That is sweet.

Have you ever tried a cable under-cut? We dig a trench around three sides of a tree 3' deep, fill it with water and let it soak for a day, drop a 3/4" cable around it and pull with cats or bobcats, loaders and tractors but a deuce should work. The cable under-cuts the tap on the Pinus banksiana and no one is around to get hurt. It was developed for basketing trees and moving large live trees but could be a safe way to salvage a stump. Put on a helmet, hook up to the back of the Deuce and go.

Instead of a chainsaw that needs to be sharpened, the boys bought a battery operated sawzall with long, aggressive blades for cutting roots while digging the trench. I'm real lazy and built an 8" bucket for my 329 bobcat hoe which also removes stumps, a little more destructive but nothing stops it.

The hazards of pulling on something with cables and chains has been well demonstrated by some great friends which we all think about when this topic comes up. They're looking down just asking that we use our noodles when we plan a recovery or a pull and we're glad you're doing that.

When stumping I've only used a back-hoe or cat to dig them out completely so you have some bigger challenges without a good hoe around.

I started a winch safety thread because of a few brothers that taught us some lessons and being a rookie, I just want to go home with eight fingers and ten toes.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?103547-Winch-Safety-and-Recovery-Dangers

 

[Recovry4x4]

I've successfully removed a few slash pine trees/ stumps with the deuce. Unless it's a minimal tree, the deuce doesn't have enough drawbar pull to bring it out. I obtained my success by using either a 2 or 3 part line and anchoring the truck low to another tree. Lots of moaning and creaking later the stumps give up. It's super hard on the equipment and usually sets you back a few shear pins or more. Snatching stumps with a big strap usually ends with unwanted consequences. Once it rips free, the stumps will come flying. The kintetic energy stored in a snatch strap is enough to catapult a 12" stump across a yard. I destroyed a quarter fender and a tire on my M275A2 with a flying stump snatched out with a 6" strap and an M35A2.

 

[ridingshotgun]

Here is what I build.

View attachment 457854

Those are cool! I can see why you would want as much of the rootball as possible.

 

[TacticalDoc]

I once tried to pull one deuce out of mud with another deuce using a snatch block. all it did was pull the winch deuce toward the stuck deuce. we had to put another truck behind the deuce to give it more weight/traction. the deuce ndt tires and light weight (13K) isn't helpful.

I'll have my 20k winch set up on my 5 ton soon and just purchased a 36,000 lb snatch block for it. should be better for trees. you might have better luck with a tow line on your pintle but I think deuces aren't heavy enough.

 

[UPFINN]

I could sell those! That is sweet.

Have you ever tried a cable under-cut? We dig a trench around three sides of a tree 3' deep, fill it with water and let it soak for a day, drop a 3/4" cable around it and pull with cats or bobcats, loaders and tractors but a deuce should work. The cable under-cuts the tap on the Pinus banksiana and no one is around to get hurt. It was developed for basketing trees and moving large live trees but could be a safe way to salvage a stump. Put on a helmet, hook up to the back of the Deuce and go.

Instead of a chainsaw that needs to be sharpened, the boys bought a battery operated sawzall with long, aggressive blades for cutting roots while digging the trench. I'm real lazy and built an 8" bucket for my 329 bobcat hoe which also removes stumps, a little more destructive but nothing stops it.

The hazards of pulling on something with cables and chains has been well demonstrated by some great friends which we all think about when this topic comes up. They're looking down just asking that we use our noodles when we plan a recovery or a pull and we're glad you're doing that.

When stumping I've only used a back-hoe or cat to dig them out completely so you have some bigger challenges without a good hoe around.

I started a winch safety thread because of a few brothers that taught us some lessons and being a rookie, I just want to go home with eight fingers and ten toes.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?103547-Winch-Safety-and-Recovery-Dangers

Thanks! I always wondered why these tables cost so much. Wow just a pine slab on a stump. Wait until you have to find a stump, debark it, plane the bottom perfectly, then slab a 1500lb log with a husky 394xp, dry the slab, then plane/sand the slab. Also have to apply messy epoxy finish and make sure there are no air bubbles.

Wow never thought of undercutting with a cable. It's kinda like those "chainsaws in a can" type of deal. Just would have to figure out how to get a sawing action on the cable. Do you need a vehicle on both ends? I bet it takes awhile. I guess I could try building some kind of pulley out of a car differential, brake, and a small pony engine. Similar to those homemade winches on logging trucks where the pto goes to the differential on an old axle. One end of the axle has a spool, and the other end has drum brakes. When the brake is applied that side stops and the spool begins to turn.

Since the snow didn't fall like was forecasted today, I think I'll go out and dig around another stump and try the sawzall. I'll try getting better pictures and maybe video of the 2nd winch attempt in action.

Good thread, safety is very important. I've watched safety videos and read the manual the came with the truck. Lots of things to go wrong when using the winch for anything other than recovery, and it is really a two person job to make sure the cable is winding properly. Hard to do if you mainly work alone.

 

[UPFINN]

I've successfully removed a few slash pine trees/ stumps with the deuce. Unless it's a minimal tree, the deuce doesn't have enough drawbar pull to bring it out. I obtained my success by using either a 2 or 3 part line and anchoring the truck low to another tree. Lots of moaning and creaking later the stumps give up. It's super hard on the equipment and usually sets you back a few shear pins or more. Snatching stumps with a big strap usually ends with unwanted consequences. Once it rips free, the stumps will come flying. The kintetic energy stored in a snatch strap is enough to catapult a 12" stump across a yard. I destroyed a quarter fender and a tire on my M275A2 with a flying stump snatched out with a 6" strap and an M35A2.

I think I will go with a tow strap. Dosn't stretch. Can't jerk it like a snatch strap through.

I can just imagine a stump rocketing over the truck or coming through the softtop to say hi

 

[Thrust]

I removed some pecan trees that were recent transplants and suffered from a freeze. If at all possible, loosen the trees by pushing on them. I would not recommend using your winch. I used a very heavy chain and would pull in different directions when required. Link to a post is here:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...ce-this-week&p=1345023&highlight=#post1345023

Good luck and be careful.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Yep, I use a heavy chain and first gear, high range, six wheel and they pop right out. Ground is different everywhere though.

 

[UPFINN]

Well looks like I will just be pulling with a heavy chain or strap from the back. Makes more sense that way. Nothing to really damage, and can use the weight of the truck along with the engine.

Just for the heck of it I cut the roots on a older jackpine stump out back. Took a little over an hour with a sawzall, axe, pick, and shovel. I got it to the point where I could hit it with the 5lb sledge and the whole thing would wiggle. I figured I'd try the winch again.

I unlocked the drum, pulled out the cable, and tried the drum clutch lever. It is STUCK AGAIN . I don't get it. The lever went from out to in easily just days before after a bit of WD40, taps with a small mallet, reversing/forwarding pto, and it was months since it was last used. Walking by the truck yesterday i'd figured i'd wiggle the lever again to keep it from sticking and it worked perfect. Now this evening when I actually go to move it after pulling out some cable, it is stuck. Spent about half an hour soaking it, tapping it, and whackin it. I even activated the pto figuring it would knock something loose like before.

I believe there are only two slots in the drum clutch the lever engages into, and there is also a spring loaded lock to keep the lever it place. Pulling out the cable by hand and pulling the lever did not allow the drum clutch to engage. I believe that it is the spring, or the slots in the sprocket are rusty. I have two options. Give it multiple soakings of WD40 and use a cheater pipe or bigger hammer on the lever, or take it apart. I should probably put more 80wt fluid in the winch, after I break the plugs free also.

 

[jamawieb]

Check the fluid, it sounds like your fork is frozen on the inside. It maybe a good idea to take the winch apart to see what's in there. After you take it apart, you won't want to use the winch to pull stumps out. It is stout but the main gear inside is a light metal, I had a winch where the main gear completely broke apart. Just my 2 cents. The lever pushes a fork over that side of the drum to engage the winch, the spring lever just keeps the drum from rotating when the lever is disengaged. It doesn't have anything to do with the activation of engaging the lever.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Just fix it right. If you break the clutch lever you will have to buy a new one and take it apart to fix it anyway, so just save yourself the trouble of having to buy a new lever.