Deuce Injector Pump , starting an unknown Deuce or IP work..Beware of Runaway

[acesneights1]

This will be a work in progress which I hope to get stickied as too many people have lost motors due to being unprepared for a runaway.
Runaway is when you cannot shut the engine down and it keeps gaining RPM until it self destructs. I lost my motor to it. So have other people recently which is why I posted this.
There are a few reasons why an engine can runaway but the most common is improper installation of the Fuel control group after doing work on the IP. Another possibility is it running of it's own oil from a blown turbo seal and lastly I have heard of the Flame heater equipped trucks possibly having a malfunction. I cannot confirm that.
See these links:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?125810-Runaway-multifuel-today

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...blem-with-my-new-Deuce-need-advice&highlight=

So the links I provided cover the Fuel control group and the turbo seal is basic diesel knowledge so I'll skip that stuff and concentrate on being prepared for a possible runaway. It took less than 2 mins for mine to self destruct although there is question whether it had already been damaged as the clutch was smoked to the point the truck would not move.
First off I strongly suggest removing the rubber hose between the turbo and the intake and having a piece of wood ready to choke it there. I tried to choke mine at the turbo intake and it still stayed running. Also have a good sized CO2 fire extinguisher ready to spray in the intake.
Have another person in the truck ready to stall it in gear. It will take combination of steps, not just one to kill the beast. A runaway multifuel can smoke the clutch in seconds. Trust me on that. be ready to unplug the lift pump at the tank and disconnect the fuel line. Make sure the line comes loose easily and have the wrench ready to do it.Seconds count.
If anyone wants to add to this. I have worked on old 2 stroke Detroit's that ranaway and I was able to choke them down much easier. Honestly I never felt so helpless watching it die.

 

[doghead]

Killing the lift pump will not stop it.

Simply shut off your ignition switch, and you'll see this is true.

 

[acesneights1]

It was how I finally killed mine. Unfortunately it was too late.
Let me expand on that. I don't know the IP on the Deuce that well but I assume you mean the internal transfer pump can keep pulling fuel even with no lift pump ? Perhaps the lift pump is flow on fail ? But in my case being that the IP was running WOT perhaps that is why it did work. In my IP thread I detailed how I had to reprime the fuel system after figuring out what was wrong with the IP, so it did work but I understand what you are saying that if it is idling and I unplug the LP it probably will still run.
I know on a 6.2 i can run without a LP but very limited power and if you try and give it fuel it will die.

 

[doghead]

Interesting. Many have driven for months without an operational in tank pump.

 

[acesneights1]

I hear you. I have on other diesels. In my case, I was ready with a block off for the air and prepared to stall it in gear. What I did not know was the PO had already had it runaway and he smoked the clutch to the point where it did nothing so with it choked I unplugged the LP and after about maybe 2 mins it finally ran out of fuel.

 

[acesneights1]

I had first tried to visegrip th synflex fuel supply line from the filters to the IP but it built up too much pressure in the Fuel filter and blew out the oring on the cover and started spraying fuel everywhere so I took it off and then unplugged the LP.

 

[RAYZER]

It was how I finally killed mine. Unfortunately it was too late.
Let me expand on that. I don't know the IP on the Deuce that well but I assume you mean the internal transfer pump can keep pulling fuel even with no lift pump ? Perhaps the lift pump is flow on fail ? But in my case being that the IP was running WOT perhaps that is why it did work. In my IP thread I detailed how I had to reprime the fuel system after figuring out what was wrong with the IP, so it did work but I understand what you are saying that if it is idling and I unplug the LP it probably will still run.
I know on a 6.2 i can run without a LP but very limited power and if you try and give it fuel it will die.

What killed yours was probably a meltdown, the high pressure fuel pump on the injection pump will suck fuel all day without the in tank lift pump running.

 

[acesneights1]

The filters were empty when it died. I had to pull the secondary one down to fix the blown out oring. I reprimed it and the engine still ran afterwards although there was damage.

 

[rustystud]

I ran my truck for a year with a bad fuel tank pump. The pump on the injector unit is capable of running your truck. What I'm going to do now is install a shut-off valve after the fuel filters. That way I could just open the engine side cover and reach in and shut off the valve in case of a runaway.

 

[rustystud]

I had first tried to visegrip th synflex fuel supply line from the filters to the IP but it built up too much pressure in the Fuel filter and blew out the oring on the cover and started spraying fuel everywhere so I took it off and then unplugged the LP.

Sounds like the relief valve is stuck. It should have opened when you clamped off the fuel to the injection pump.

 

[acesneights1]

I ran my truck for a year with a bad fuel tank pump. The pump on the injector unit is capable of running your truck. What I'm going to do now is install a shut-off valve after the fuel filters. That way I could just open the engine side cover and reach in and shut off the valve in case of a runaway.

I was thinking about that too. A shutoff would be easy to install.

I made a mistake about unplugging the fuel pump. I was thinking about this last night.I re-read my own post(14)

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-need-advice&p=1547221&viewfull=1#post1547221

I unplugged it and also grabbed a flare wrench and disconnected the fuel line at the tank. Sorry, I am getting older and forget things. That was how I finally killed it. Like I said before though it took almost 2-3 minutes to run the filters out. I'll edit my first post to reflect this mistake.

 

[rustystud]

I know this doesn't help you right now, but your accident will I'm sure help someone in the future from going down this dark road. I for one will be installing that fuel shut-off after the fuel filters !

 

[whatadeuce]

I like the idea of an emergency fuel line shut off valve; what do you all think of installing one at the tank outlet?

 

[Keith_J]

Lift pumps mostly circulate fuel for priming, breaking supply lines will break siphon effect, then air will get to the IP and engine will stop running. IPs get hot, circulating fuel cools them.

 

[RAYZER]

I like the idea of an emergency fuel line shut off valve; what do you all think of installing one at the tank outlet?

Doesn't seem like a shut off valve would kill a runaway multifuel fast enough.

 

[whatadeuce]

There is such a thing as a three way valve, having two positions. and consisting of three ports: A, B, and C. Port "A" is connected to the fuel tank, Port "B" is connected to the Injector Pump, and Port "C" is to atmosphere. In the ENGINE RUN position. port "A" is open to port "B" and fuel goes to Injector Pump. Port "C" is closed. In ENGINE STOP position, port "A" (tank) remains open but port "B" ( Injector Pump) is closed while port "C" ( atmosphere) opens, so that the inlet to the Injector pump sucks air and hopefully the runaway engine will stop immediately. The uploaded picture and specification sheet shows such a valve as an example , but it remains to be verified that this or any valve is fuel rated.

 

[sidel2426]

I like the idea of a fuel shut off valve, but I would prefer not having to get that close the engine if it's a runaway. If the valve could be controlled from the cab that would be great otherwise I think I would prefer to go with the CO2.

 

[rustystud]

If you put the valve after the final filter it will be fine, and will completely shut down the engine as long as it's not sucking engine oil from somewhere else. Your doing the same thing with the engine kill rod. Shutting off fuel to the pump. The bypass (which is integral to the fuel pump base) allows unused fuel to go back to the tank. No special 3 way valve needed. It would also be easy to attach a cable to this valve handle and run it inside the cab. As for those who worry about lube for the pump, just stop and think what your saying. I would rather have a pump and let my engine blow up. HUMMMM! In all practical purposes the short amount of time without fuel to the pump is nothing. Has no one ran there riggs out of fuel ? Did you experience complete injection pump failure afterwards ? I don't think so.

 

[bonedoc]

If you put the valve after the final filter it will be fine, and will completely shut down the engine as long as it's not sucking engine oil from somewhere else. Your doing the same thing with the engine kill rod. Shutting off fuel to the pump. The bypass (which is integral to the fuel pump base) allows unused fuel to go back to the tank. No special 3 way valve needed. It would also be easy to attach a cable to this valve handle and run it inside the cab. As for those who worry about lube for the pump, just stop and think what your saying. I would rather have a pump and let my engine blow up. HUMMMM! In all practical purposes the short amount of time without fuel to the pump is nothing. Has no one ran there riggs out of fuel ? Did you experience complete injection pump failure afterwards ? I don't think so.

I agree with you and was thinking of a shut off valve as well. I like your idea of it after the last filter. Anyone have any suggestions of what style valve would be best or is any ballvalve good?

 

[whatadeuce]

fuel rated, highest quality...