M135 Advice please.......................??

[Brad]

Hello all, It's been a year or more since I have been on here.
I am back at taking care of a few things for my Dad's 1952 GMC M135.
We spent years working on it, was able for him to do one event, then he had a terrible stroke almost three years ago. He is thankfully still with us but until this summer was unable to get in the truck. Finally my Sons and I figured out away toget him in the bad while still in his wheel chair. It was the greatest, cept' he just bawled like a baby it meant so much to him.
Dad just turned 85 and is aveteran of Inchon and Chosin Res.
Though he used old WWII trucks in Korea, he still really liked this truck.
Anyway, her's the help I need??
Finally the engine oil is low enough to need some added. Dad had some 30 Weight NON Detergent here in 2 1/2 gal cans. I thought it was for the truck but even though it says premium, it also says not for vehicles newer than 1930??? I really cant think of any other reason he would have had this oil??
Could I use it?? Is there something else I should be looking for.??
Finally, I am still having trouble with the brakes locking up occasionally. If I back up just a little they release. Seems to be just one of the front wheels.
I have rebuily or replaced every wheel cylinder, as well as the master cyl, and the booster.

Cleaned all the lines, etc.
Just vcant get it to quit locking up.
Any suggestions???? It has always done this.
Thanks in advance

PS, I have allot od extra stuff that I am going to list on the classifieds. Will sell or trade for stuff I can use for the truck or a 1950 Willys I am restoring. Thats another of Dad's projects he started before getting sick.
I am a glutton for punishment.
Adios to all

 

[Westech]

Only use non detergent oil in engines with out oil filters.

Adjust the brake shoes. Seams too tight.

 

[rosco]

Your truck won't care about the oil, as long as its full of it. Use it up. Brake drums are cast iron & they can get surface rust overnight in damp conditions. I guess that the drums weren't turned, nor that the lining was new, and maybe you mixed up the shoes when you did the service, or even if everything was new, stuff needs to seat in. Get on a back road, and drive it. Maybe ride the brakes a little. Maybe you have one shoe that is sticky & doing the hang ups. Get on a dirt road & try to see who skids first, if it keeps doing it, pull that one down - you can't hurt it! Keep us Posted.

 

[Brad]

I did not have the drums turned, and I did use the shoes as they were cause the lining was good.
Now, I only did one wheel at a time , "BUT" maybe I got the shoes swirch, front / back.
These brakes have always stuck like this since I worked on them.
Cant really say it was a problem before but I had to re-do them cause the wheel cylinders were leaking.
Could that be the problem, just switching the shoes??
I have them adjusted way back. So far in fact that it is a problem in that when applying the pedal there is allot of travel, then WHAM lots of brake.
TOOOO much brake, and they stick. But if I back up just a little, or even pull out forward far enough they seem to let go.
I have "ridden" the pedal a few times. I'll find some hills and ride them allot. Maybe adjust them up a little first.
Earlier today I drained all the air tanks and the booster looking for water, or problems. Nothing found.
I put in a little air tool oil as well as some air brake treatment???
I guess I'll go ahead and use that oil. I really dont see what could be wrong with it?
Thanks

 

[ralph3162]

I would check the vent on the firewall for obstruction. I had a similar issue turned out the air in the booster was not releasing fast enough. Every time I use the brake I had to wait a second or two before I could take off again, brakes would lock until enough air from the booster was released after I took foot off the pedal.

 

[Brad]

Hi again guys,
I checked and actually there are two different 2 1/2 gal jugs of oil Dad had.
Both are manufactured by TRAVELLER

NEITHER ONE SAYS DETERGENT
However,

One says SAE 30 Standard Non Detergent w / no additives. AP1SA
Not reccomended for automobile use after 1930

The other says Premium Heavy Duty SAE 30 AP1 Service SL
With Additives for use in automobiles and lite trucks prior to 2004

I'm not trying to be confusing but I sure dont want to mess up here???
Would both be ok???
Thanks

 

[ralph3162]

Air Packs are kind of touchy.

 

[Another Ahab]

Hello all, It's been a year or more since I have been on here.
I am back at taking care of a few things for my Dad's 1952 GMC M135.
We spent years working on it, was able for him to do one event, then he had a terrible stroke almost three years ago. He is thankfully still with us but until this summer was unable to get in the truck. Finally my Sons and I figured out away toget him in the bad while still in his wheel chair. It was the greatest, cept' he just bawled like a baby it meant so much to him.
Dad just turned 85 and is aveteran of Inchon and Chosin Res.
Though he used old WWII trucks in Korea, he still really liked this truck.

Very cool that you are keeping up with the rig. And that you still have your dad. Amen.

 

[m1010plowboy]

G749 brake problems

Sure hope someone's around to put me in a truck when I'm not able to do it myself. Your Pop is a lucky guy!

I just took my 172 year old parents to the 'recycle' station today and dumped any 'old, unknown and unlabelled' products that we had in our sheds. Makes it easy for the next decision on where our oil is coming from.......fresh from the store. My Dad says, " If ya don't know, don't do it" so if you use something in that truck you're not sure of, prepare to peel potatoes.

Your brakes are driving us springy. The primary item that pulls the pads away from the drums are 4 springs. Help me out here......if the fluid forever freely flows flawlessly out of the wheel cylinders when you release the pedal,,,,is it possible that the springs got weak over time and are not doing their job? Just thinkin' out loud.
TM 9-8024 pg. 172 brake troubleshooting 'does not' mention your symptom so no help there.

I did a 40 mile run recently and always feel my hubs when I stop. Well, I check for leaks and loose nuts too but that's a different thread. My hubs run slightly warm to the touch even after a hard run. Have you had the chance to check your hub temps?

Give Dad a hug for us!

 

[Section8]

Plowboy beat me to it.
Was gonna say check to make sure your springs are all there and see if they are weak.
Another thing to try is pull the drum and have someone hit the brake peddle. See if they stay "locked" With out the drum in place.
If they do that rules out a bad drum.
Not sure I mentioned it before when you were first started posting in previous thread about your brakes, the difference between brake cylinders.
You may have gotten canadian version brake cylinders. Or at least one. The push rod (pin) on Canadian version brake cylinders are longer. This would cause your brake to hydro lock against the drum until the brake pressure has bled off to absolute zero.
Try swapping the cylinders from one side of the axle to the other. If the opposite tire locks up with those cylinders then that might be your culprit.
Also check to see if the brake pads are grabbing on your backing plate. If the backing plate has been bent it may hold the pads when you brake and then release once you force them with driving.
Are the cylinders new???? Did you rebuild old ones? Can't remember off hand. Maybe a cylinder wall is scored and holds a push rod.
Hmmmmmm.
Crushed brake line?
Has your fender got a head sized dent in It yet? Enough to drive you craze!

 

[hendersond]

I had a similar problem on the center axle. I had to break the bleeder loose to get them to completely release. If I waited they would eventually release. It did seem like one wheel on the short axle side locked up. it was weird because of the direct gear drive between the rear axles. I swear one tire was turning faster or when braking hard on gravel.
Here is what I found. I had restricted fluid flow. The spring pressure was not enough to overcome the restriction. The restriction was actually "squeezing" of the outside of the hose. The brake line runs inside a channel on the top dog-bone that secures the axle. Mud, rust and water freeze and eventually crush the hose restricting the flow. There is a metal wire clip that holds the lines inside the channel. As the dirt and rust expand, it pushes the hose up into the wire causing a small collapse. Pull the spring wire off, weasel the hose out of the channel with a flat blade screw driver and drive the brake pedal to the floor. My hose was successfully expanded by the internal pressure as applied by my foot.
I noticed the difference when the power bleeder was applied. the flow to the one axle was greatly diminished. I Started at the connection on the wheel cyl and worked back to the master. When I cracked the line that went to the rubber hose on the dog-bone I had fluid squirting everywhere. Everything past that was just a wet spot.
I took the box off because I thought I was going to need to mess with the lines and airpack. If I did not see the difference bleeding with the power bleeder, I would still not have figured it out.
Dan

 

[rosco]

All those springs didn't get weak &/or break. I said it before, reversing those shoes will do it, but you should be able to feel the heat, if you drive it a little more, on the offending wheel end. You can't hit the brakes, without a drum on - you will blow the piston out of the cylinder. If you have a bad hose &/or vent line, it will just be that axle & if you keep driving, the drums will be hotter then the rest. You don't just want to start tearing into it, without the trouble shooting 1st. Blowing out each axle's vent line is a goo idea. There is also an electric brake lock, to hold the brakes on. That should be checked.

 

[Brad]

Wow, lots of great thinking going on here.
In fact the front wheels have all NEW wheel cylinders, and from Canada. But if I remeber correctly I was pre warned about the rods and switch with the originals. BUT, I still have all the old parts and will check and be sure. There should be eight brand new rods in the junk box, right??
I am pretty confident that the springs are all there, and see no reason they should not be up to strength, as I didnt have this problem until after working on the wheel cylinders. Thing is, I did so much at once that its hard to tell what is causing the trouble. I opened all the line ends and blew them out clean, there were no crud or anything.
Also, the air pac wasnt orking so I sent it iout and had it rebuilt. Also rebuilt the master cylinder.
As I rebuilt each wheel I completley took apart, cleaned, primed and painted, neew seals if needed, everything.
If ya take a wheel off its like a brand new truck.
I been fightin' this brake stuff now for several years, probably have used 5 gal of brake fluid. (LOL)
Anyway, I am going to the store and buying a couple quarts of NAPA premium Non Detergent SAE 20 oil.
Its against my style and up-bringing to do sa with several gallons of oil here that is probably just fine. But I cannot take the chance.
Thanks again to all for the brain power. If ya get any more ideas please share.
Brad

 

[Brad]

Gee,
I posted a reply to this, but I dont see it here?
I never can get these web sites right.

 

[armytruck63]

Rosco is right, don't have someone push on the brake pedal with a drum removed. You will blow the pistons out of the wheel cylinder and have a big mess on your hands.

Another possibility for dragging brakes: the hoses can deteriorate and swell enough on the inside that they can block the flow of brake fluid. The master cylinder and airpack can usually overcome this, but the return springs might not have enough power to overcome the blockage. If your brake hoses are original, they are about 60 years old and should probably be replaced, if you haven't done so already.

 

[Brad]

AGGGGHHHH!!!!!
Now after that, it shows up.
I'm going nuts!!!Sure wish I could get these brakes just right. We drive it as is very carefully but I am afraid they lock up during a parade. Still not sure about that oil.
Thanks all for the help

 

[Brad]

I remeber that possibility from last year.
I sort of rulled that out when I cracked the fitting ahead of the rubber lines and the brakes released instantly.

 

[Another Ahab]

AGGGGHHHH!!!!!
Now after that, it shows up.

It's frustrating, but not to worry, sometimes it takes a little while to get the hang of IT things:

- That truck is a Beauty!

 

[m1010plowboy]

Gee,
I posted a reply to this, but I dont see it here?
I never can get these web sites right.View attachment 521302

You got it right! You're posting pictures and not sure about anyone else, gave me the biggest smile of the day....Thanks.

Have you taken that truck to an open area and worked it? All that fresh paint, new teflon on the thread ends?, lack of leaks for lubrication and cleanliness might need some stretching before it works well.

How many hours on the brakes since the re-build?

Thanks to your thread, plan "A" when we tear the next one apart is to tag the pads to the drums. That should eliminate the pad issue.

Again, just thinking out loud and the landscaper asking the mechanic, If the pads do get mixed up, assuming drums are turned and old (90%) pads are going back on, could this problem still occur?, what is the solution once you mix em' up?

Thanks again for the pics Brad, I could only wish to look as young as your Dad.

 

[Brad]

I dont think I got any of the drums reversed cause I pretty much did each wheel one at a time.
But I could have gotten the shoes reversed on any particular whee.
Wouldnt riding the brakes sort of reshape each shoe???
It is the front passenger side wheel causing the problem right now. But it has been others at times, Sometimes a back wheel, but not any more.
Maybe they are now force fit.
Just a thought?? Since I have the brake adjust ment backed off allot, wouldnt that make the "riding the brake" remedy not work so well.
Maybe I should adjust them up correctly and then just ride the heck out of them.
And yes, the offending drum does get pretty warm.
The brakes will release pretty quick but they do lock up abot every time.
Someone metioned a "VENT" ?? The only vent on the brakes that I know of is the one on top the booster and the one on top the master cylinder?? Are there others?? Maybe I am missing something.
Also, I have checked for any bad lines and am confident they are all ok. Of course I might be wrong, but dont think so.
Have a great week end all.
Thanks for the nice comments on the truck. It was (is) my Dad's pride and joy. There is no rust or putty on it. A few dents and some real rough welds but I have been told that is how they were made??