Engine Wont Run After Setting Up For 2 YEARS.

[Loose Deuce]

this is probably not related but I did get my engine to try and start and it sounded like it wanted to run away but died. and never run again. I had forgot about this and didn't post it from the start.

 

[rustystud]

Myself Chigger It would just be waisting my time dropping injector lines . Myself I just drop off the shut down cover. It is only two flat head screws and from there I check to see if the fuel control assembly is operating correct. I have never taken off a injector line for anything execpt replacing it. The injectors don't need to be bleed to make them run after rebuild. The injectors don't have to be loosen or the top plug on the head to see if fuel is there if there is a no start problem. If the final filter has fuel 4 to 6 pounds of fuel pressure and you know the filter is good then the head is getting fuel the problem is in the head. You could also drop off the fuel line to the IP and if there is fuel under light pressure but no start it is a head problem ( control or button most of the time). Your friend could have prevented the runaway by just takeing off the fuel shut down cover and there he would have found a stuck control.
If some how you could over pressure the fuel system I would think the steel canisters would hold well over plastic and compression fittings.

Yes this would be much easier then removing all the injection lines ! What are you referring to about over pressuring the fuel system ?

 

[Floridianson]

Could the piston in the HH be stuck? I've read about taking out the center screw and putting a dowl or something in there to see if it goes up and down while the engine is being cranked.

We have talked about this and if the button falls off the plunger may still go up and down but they wont run.

Rusty in post 12 you were trying to inform Chigger who needs to read more threads and tm's that without the bypass the pressure could blow the steel fuel canisters. I still think the plastic compression fuel lines or O rings in the head would blow if there was an over pressure in the system before the fuel canisters.

 

[chigger]

Hey now.... I never said that the fuel couldn't bypass. The fact is that the secondary filter when they become clogged, fuel will bypass the filters and return to the tank. That is all I was trying to point out.

 

[chigger]

what is involved in removing that Head thing ? will there be lots of springs and stuff fly everywhere ????? I never took one off before.

I assume you tried all the easy stuff first and are getting plenty of fuel to the HH, but no fuel pumping out.

I'm probably not the best one to answer this as I've only pulled the HH once due to a cracked HH. I did nothing other than swap the HH. I didn't look at any maintenance books. I just did it. Here is my experience.

I was concerned about making sure the timing was correct when it went back together. I did this by opening the little window on the top front of the IP. I turned the motor to align the timing mark to the pointer (located inside the little window) and made sure that I could see the red tooth at the same time. The red tooth is a tooth of a gear that can be viewed when you take off the fuel shutoff cover. You will have to turn the motor to find the red tooth. When I put it back together, I made sure that the red tooth was in the exact same position. If you are going to be taking the HH off, you will want to make sure everything is clean because any dirt can damage Injection pumps. I removed all the lines to the HH. I discovered that in order to remove the HH, I needed to completely remove the fuel shutoff mechanism. There are 2 screws that are safety wired together and a little guide plate. Take a picture here and note the position of the plate as it can go back together upside down. I pulled this mechanism out. As I recall, I noticed that there was a part on the mechanism's shaft that could fall out during the removal or installation. I assume that this is the button folks are talking about. The mechanism drives a plunger inside the HH up or down to turn fuel on or off. There are just 4 nuts holding the HH on. Take them off and also remove the spacers under the nuts. The HH will now slide directly off. If it is difficult to come loose, you can tap the side of the HH with a mallet. Don't try to get under the HH and pry with a screwdriver as you will damage the sealing surface. There are O-rings under the HH that will most likely need replacement. From here, I'm not sure how to check the HH. I never really paid much attention to the internals. One thing to note, the fuel shut-off mechanism is a bear to align while reinstalling. This is because you can't see if the pin aligns with the plunger. Also, this part can fall out while installing. Luckily, this didn't happen to me. Once the HH is back on, you will want to test it to see if the fuel shut-off is actually shutting off the fuel. Do this while the injection lines are still off as I described in a previous post to prevent run-away.

 

[Floridianson]

My bad thought thought about a crushed return line to the tank that would build up pressure did not think of final fuel filter stoping up compleatly.

 

[rustystud]

We have talked about this and if the button falls off the plunger may still go up and down but they wont run.

Rusty in post 12 you were trying to inform Chigger who needs to read more threads and tm's that without the bypass the pressure could blow the steel fuel canisters. I still think the plastic compression fuel lines or O rings in the head would blow if there was an over pressure in the system before the fuel canisters.

Maybe on the multifuel this would happen, but on all engines that use a mechanical shutoff they will have a fuel bypass to prevent fuel pressure build-up. The most likely thing that happens is a fuel filter failure since this is usually the weakest link. Don't believe me ? Look it up. Or tomorrow I'll post the proper documents.

 

[rustystud]

View attachment Scan0008.pdfI'll just save all you the trouble of arguing with me and post this here now.

 

[rustystud]

View attachment Scan0009.pdf Here, I even highlighted the main parts for those who are "reading challenged" .

 

[RAYZER]

Don't forget that the hh plunger not only goes up and down but rotates at the same time, if the plunger is gummed up and too hard to rotate from running who knows what as fuel, it will brake the rotation key (don't think that's what it's called) that fits up into the bottom of the hh and around the plunger in two, or the quill shaft. No rotate, no run!

 

[rustystud]

Don't forget that the hh plunger not only goes up and down but rotates at the same time, if the plunger is gummed up and too hard to rotate from running who knows what as fuel, it will brake the rotation key (don't think that's what it's called) that fits up into the bottom of the hh and around the plunger in two. No rotate, no run!

There's nothing worse then old diesel that has started to separate into it's base components like TAR ! The poor old injection pump is a precision machined unit, that's why when you store a engine for a few years you must go through the proper storage procedures. The TM's do list them.

 

[Floridianson]

View attachment 522442I'll just save all you the trouble of arguing with me and post this here now.

God knows we don't want to argue with you as we would have to read a full page of your rant and how many girls you slept with.
The diagram of that system you posted is not our Deuce system and don't know why it is in the mix.
To my understanding the Deuce system allways has a flow of fuel through the head and then returns to the secondary fuel filter where there a pass through T fitting back to the tank and that is also piped into the secondary fuel base. Believe the over pressure valve is in the filter base not in the T. This would be with the intank pump running or idle fuel pressure or high idle fuel pressure of 60 lb. If our system just circulates and the fuel control is put in the stop pisition then no fuel pressure in the pulnger can be made and it bypasses the head and returns to the tank then how would it over pressure just before the motor stops. Would our system not even be a mechanical shut down. Since you want to make wise cracks about reading and waisting space.

 

[Floridianson]

I can deal with the better than you crap and I should have never said your pressure gage on the fuel tank was silly. Myself the goat trails I have been on with my luck a branch would knock off the gage leaving a broken off peice of brass spilling fuel all over the tank and ground emptying my fuel tank while I said to myself that was a stupid place to put a gage. Well that's just me sad but true.

 

[rustystud]

I can deal with the better than you crap and I should have never said your pressure gage on the fuel tank was silly. Myself the goat trails I have been on with my luck a branch would knock off the gage leaving a broken off peice of brass spilling fuel all over the tank and ground emptying my fuel tank while I said to myself that was a stupid place to put a gage. Well that's just me sad but true.

What crawled up your butt Floridianson ? Was I even talking to you ? As far as the pressure relief valve goes, the system I showed is basically like ours . It serves the same function. The relief valve does NOT open until 60 PSI, so it keeps the pressure in the system. All diesel systems that have mechanical injectors (not electronic rail systems ) will have this pressure relief valve in there fuel system. Read up on the fuel system before you go ranting at me.
As far as my sexual activity goes, I was a virgin until I got married, and have stayed faithful my whole life. I find your comments offensive. So if you cannot disprove what I have written then shut up and leave my personal life alone.
I'm sure I will get a reprimand for speaking out like this and you Floridianson will get nothing since you are such good buddies with the "elite" here, but I will speak my mind.
As far as my comments in my last post saying I will get flamed, if you read any of my past posts you will see I always get someone who says I'm totally wrong and until I prove it the flaming will continue. You yourself have been guilty of this. So in this post I was being proactive.
If it wasn't for the great ideas I have gotten for my deuce here I wouldn't waste my time with this site due to the attitude of some who think they are special, "The elite ! ". There are many on this site who have done really exceptional work on their trucks and others who have exceptional knowledge and I admire them for it . Peashooter, JasonS, Gringletaube (Gerhard) , Quadjumper, Warthog, Rayzor, Lt Dan, Silverstate, Brian454, many more that I cannot think of as I am very angry now. It is because of them I keep coming back. I used to think you where an upstanding guy Flordianson but after your post here I can see your true colors.

 

[rustystud]

I can deal with the better than you crap and I should have never said your pressure gage on the fuel tank was silly. Myself the goat trails I have been on with my luck a branch would knock off the gage leaving a broken off peice of brass spilling fuel all over the tank and ground emptying my fuel tank while I said to myself that was a stupid place to put a gage. Well that's just me sad but true.

Repeat post.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

geeze what a rowdy crowd , hey, did you think to check the air cleaner for a mouse nest????? my 2 cents

 

[Loose Deuce]

if you are asking me, Yes I did that after the fuel filters. I got a case of lazy butt right now, will use all this good info soon.

 

[Warthog]

Stop all the crap or you guys can have some "free" time off. Understand???????

 

[tot74]

Have you checked the high pressure bleeder plug on the side of the IP head? I have had this plug seeping and it cause a no start. Cleaned seat and torqued and started. Hope this is helpful.

 

[whatadeuce]

Hey florianson, thank you for that fuel flow picture and text...