6.2 debate.

[11Echo]

Limited liability company that funtion outside the normal operating realm of gm powertrain.similar to ford/kia or GM/ deawoo. that plant like most in dayton and southern Indiana work force belongs to an electrian union.. I been there few times it feel like Japanese company more than american.. more less the last of anything that is gm left in dayton ohio ...there is parts house around hamilton .

The company incorporated into a limited for tax purposes. It is and always has been a GM entity.
The workforce is American and the IUE represents them because they are the old GM/Frigidaire/AC Delco employees and the Union is from 1949. When the plants began part of GM's SAG, (Specialized Automotive Group), the Union continued in that capacity same as the employees at the Packard Electric plants, Harrison, and AC Delco. Sag was spun off as Delphi in 1998.
GM chose Isuzu for this venture because they have built more diesel engines than any other company in the history of diesel engines. The Duramax is an excellent collaboration.

Intersting you capitalize Japanese and not American?

 

[marks86]

The biggest Issue with the 6.2 diesel is that people are constantly comparing it to a Cummins or Duramax engine. Think of it this way, what would people say about the 6.2 diesel if there was no Cummins in dodge trucks. The motor gets fine mileage and lasts as long as your maintain it, but compared to a Duramax its just not enough. I'm to young to remember but what were peoples thoughts on it in 84? Did they say it was a turd or was it fine to compete with the standards of thinking

My thought is the 6.2 diesel vs the 6.9or7.3IDI in the mid 80s was a fine comparison but the second the Cummins came out in Dodges it was pretty much game over, diesels are like the new Hot rods, the new Ford Powerstroke runs like 13s stock, so if you talk to any new diesel Fan why would anyone in there right mind want a 6.2 turd when they could have a Cummins.

The 6.2 diesel is...

1. Not based of the 350(god I hate that, and hear is everywhere)
2. Is SLOW
3. Has pretty much no performance aftermarket
3. But its reliable(as long as you maintain it)
4. Will tow 10k without a problem(just don't expect to get anywhere quick)
5. Depending on gears/weight can get pretty **** could fuel mileage

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I think they have the technology to build more efficient diesel engines but chose not to.

You are right. Here's why:

Small diesel technology had been stunted because the costs outweighed the benefits. Up until the oil embargoes..and it is stunted again by ever increasing emissions regulations and the rising cost of diesel compared to gasoline.

Emissions regs are killing fuel efficiency.

 

[cucvrus]

Why would anyone in there right mind want a 6.2 turd when they could have a Cummins. I think you can have these conversations with out bashing each other. And I know you can get your point accross with out calling names. If I remember correctly. I don't think that a Cummins came in a CUCV. And this is a conversation about the 6.2. The 6.2 was not put in a CUCV to turn 13's. It was not put into the CUCV's to do after market performance upgrades. You did admit it was reliable. Realiability was more important in a CUCV then turning a 13 in the 1/4 mile. Speed was not even figured in at the time they were built. They were/are true reliable work horses. And as with anything with the 456 gears / 308 gears that they have they are slow. But they will work all day every day and spend less time in the shop even as they are 30 years old then any other diesels I have seen. So you must remember you are comparing it to modern diesel. These are in a different league. And they are what they are. But they are not TURDS. Lets get that straight.

 

[11Echo]

The biggest Issue with the 6.2 diesel is that people are constantly comparing it to a Cummins or Duramax engine. Think of it this way, what would people say about the 6.2 diesel if there was no Cummins in dodge trucks. The motor gets fine mileage and lasts as long as your maintain it, but compared to a Duramax its just not enough. I'm to young to remember but what were peoples thoughts on it in 84? Did they say it was a turd or was it fine to compete with the standards of thinking

My thought is the 6.2 diesel vs the 6.9or7.3IDI in the mid 80s was a fine comparison but the second the Cummins came out in Dodges it was pretty much game over, diesels are like the new Hot rods, the new Ford Powerstroke runs like 13s stock, so if you talk to any new diesel Fan why would anyone in there right mind want a 6.2 turd when they could have a Cummins.

The 6.2 diesel is...

1. Not based of the 350(god I hate that, and hear is everywhere)
2. Is SLOW
3. Has pretty much no performance aftermarket
3. But its reliable(as long as you maintain it)
4. Will tow 10k without a problem(just don't expect to get anywhere quick)
5. Depending on gears/weight can get pretty **** could fuel mileage

The Cummins engine was available in a GM pickup before Dodge started using them. Been discussed before.

www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?27071-5-9-cummins-in-M1009&p=282508#post282508

 

[marks86]

Why would anyone in there right mind want a 6.2 turd when they could have a Cummins. I think you can have these conversations with out bashing each other. And I know you can get your point accross with out calling names. If I remember correctly. I don't think that a Cummins came in a CUCV. And this is a conversation about the 6.2. The 6.2 was not put in a CUCV to turn 13's. It was not put into the CUCV's to do after market performance upgrades. You did admit it was reliable. Realiability was more important in a CUCV then turning a 13 in the 1/4 mile. Speed was not even figured in at the time they were built. They were/are true reliable work horses. And as with anything with the 456 gears / 308 gears that they have they are slow. But they will work all day every day and spend less time in the shop even as they are 30 years old then any other diesels I have seen. So you must remember you are comparing it to modern diesel. These are in a different league. And they are what they are. But they are not TURDS. Lets get that straight.

You must not Cleary understood my post. My point was people do not like 6.2 diesel engines because of what they are comparing them to? Cummins. The 6.2 wasn't put in a cucv for reliability or speed or anything it was the only diesel Chevy offered in 1983 that's why a CUCV has a 6.2 diesel. So you saying if Chevy had the option of a faster more reliably diesel they would stick to the 6.2 absolutely not. I can say these things because I've owned a ton of these trucks and put a lot of miles on a 6.2. Once again these same thing have been said time and time again, 6.2 diesel are reliable and get good fuel economy which are two very important things in the diesel world but they lack power which I don't know about you but is important to me, I understand that in the 80s it really wasn't a lack of power but this thread isn't in the 80s its in 2014 where diesel engines run 13s in the quarter mile and are just as reliable. So back to my original idea we compare them to modern day diesels and the 6.2 just doesn't cut it

 

[marks86]

The Cummins engine was available in a GM pickup before Dodge started using them. Been discussed before.

www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?27071-5-9-cummins-in-M1009&p=282508#post282508

show me one?

 

[11Echo]

show me one?

Did you take the time to go to the linked thread?

 

[marks86]

Did you take the time to go to the linked thread?

sorry but I don't see a Cummins in those pictures, I honestly believe you because I know anything was possible from back in the day....... but I have never seen a Chevy with a Cummins motor in it roll off the showroom floor

You make it sound like it was a production model, if the cummins and 6.2 were next each other when ordering a truck wouldn't there be aleast a few cummins chevys out there. I mean there are tons and tons of 6.2 diesel trucks but I have never seen a Cummins Chevy and I've seen ALOT of Chevy's

 

[11Echo]

sorry but I don't see a Cummins in those pictures, I honestly believe you because I know anything was possible from back in the day....... but I have never seen a Chevy with a Cummins motor in it roll off the showroom floor

You make it sound like it was a production model, if the cummins and 6.2 were next each other when ordering a truck wouldn't there be aleast a few cummins chevys out there. I mean there are tons and tons of 6.2 diesel trucks but I have never seen a Cummins Chevy and I've seen ALOT of Chevy's

I stated the engine was available when ordering a new vehicle straight from the Chevy/GMC showroom which is correct. If you had read the other linked thread I told of the 3 Cummins equipped trucks I had seen in person getting service at the local Cummins dealer. They were a special order truck. The Cummins refit facility was in Indiana.

I have the complete Chevy/GMC option book for this item which I do not let out of my sight. It has won me a lot of bets!

 

[Skinny]

I would love to see a C/K (or later R/V) style truck with a factory Cummins engine. Forget the order book propoganda, how about photos of one on the showroom floor (that means lots of bell bottoms and large mustaches in the photo), an OEM repair or wiring diagram referencing it, etc. Just because someone has a book saying it was available doesn't mean one has been manufactured as a production vehicle.

Now I believe that a larger GM chassis like the P-van (step van) bread truck vehicles may have gotten a large production refit from gas or 6.2 original engines to a 4BT or 6BT somewhere down the line. I call BS on the 1 ton pickup model having them.

You can see videos of UFO's, Sasquatch, and Mermaids on TV...doesn't mean they are real.

 

[marks86]

from this point on I'm going to make one of my life goals to seeing one of these. For the past two hours(don't tell my boss) I have come up with 0 on the internet

 

[11Echo]

I would love to see a C/K (or later R/V) style truck with a factory Cummins engine. Forget the order book propoganda, how about photos of one on the showroom floor (that means lots of bell bottoms and large mustaches in the photo), an OEM repair or wiring diagram referencing it, etc. Just because someone has a book saying it was available doesn't mean one has been manufactured as a production vehicle.

Now I believe that a larger GM chassis like the P-van (step van) bread truck vehicles may have gotten a large production refit from gas or 6.2 original engines to a 4BT or 6BT somewhere down the line. I call BS on the 1 ton pickup model having them.

You can see videos of UFO's, Sasquatch, and Mermaids on TV...doesn't mean they are real.

I stated more than once I have seen 3 of the trucks at different times in 1986-87 at the local Cummins dealer while having my General serviced. Anything more will require someone to open their wallet if they state I am not to be believed.

 

[marks86]

I do know that p-serious vans don't come from the factory with Cummins they start out life with lets so a 350 and it gets sent to Cummins for a heart transplant. My assumption is they labeled it for P-series and C/K series(like brochure says) and for some reason it failed. and Yes it did fail because I have never seen one. But then again I haven't been looking

 

[Skinny]

So over 25 years ago you spotted 3 trucks...that isn't exactly evidence they are full on production trucks. I'm pretty sure that with a Cummins as a much better option, these things would be floating around America like unemployed welfare rats. I mean how many people that are on the interweb have posted spotting one in a junkyard with the engine intact?

New vehicles can be refit, lots of people people do this. Just because you can buy a Jeep Wrangler with a 5.7 Hemi doesn't mean the factory optioned it like that. Yes, it could be serviced at the dealership. Yes, it looks OEM. Yes, you could technically produce an order form for some AEV or other 3rd party to perform the work. No, Jeep still doesn't make one.

When you find a guy that actually bolted a 4/6BT into a C/K or R/V chassis...then your story is confirmed. I don't mean 3 trucks, I mean like 30,000 full on in the plant production trucks. I don't make this statement to discredit or offend you but a photo of a GM truck and van with some words underneath it isn't proof.

 

[Drock]

While we're on the subject of the longevity of the 6.2. I have a (diesel newbie) question I've bin meaning to ask. It's bin ah few years now, but motor oil companies stopped putting (zinc) in there oils. This has bin eating old style flat tappet gasser V8's ever sense. And now if you build flat tappet motor you'll have to add ah zinc additive to every oil change so it won't eat the cam. Is this the same for our 6.2's? Do we need to be using zinc additives. Or does diesel oil already have it ,OR does it not need it?

 

[cucvrus]

Sir 11 Echo you will get no where with these guys. They know all seen all and been there and done that. There is no rhyme or reason with them. Save your breath I have heard of this Cummins conversion although not off the GM Flint production line. I also saw brand new Chevrolet S10 pick ups with Isuzu diesel engines in them back in the day. They were rare but they did exist. These guys pound thier chests and think they invented the diesel and they have the best. That is thier opinion and I am OK with that. It is a friendly debate. No one is right and no one is wrong. I just drive them as they come from the factory and know as a fact that I may improve something in my opinion but in someone elses eyes I did it all wrong. Welcome to the SS website. You have been here a while I am sure you have seen and heard all this before. I saw Perkins diesels in Ford trucks before. Many spin off companys did all sorts of after market conversions. They still do for a price. So everybody is right here. That is why they have so many different flavors of ice cream we all like what we like and that is fine. Coexist and do your own thing.

 

[11Echo]

I do know that p-serious vans don't come from the factory with Cummins they start out life with lets so a 350 and it gets sent to Cummins for a heart transplant. My assumption is they labeled it for P-series and C/K series(like brochure says) and for some reason it failed. and Yes it did fail because I have never seen one. But then again I haven't been looking

Not in K series.
C series 2wd and P series availability.

 

[marks86]

cucvrus, do me a favor Google s-10 with Isuzu diesel from factory, also Google ford truck with Perkins diesel. There are tons of pages and information about these, but yet nothing about Chevy Cummins. Skinny was just making a point that just because you have a picture of a Chevy truck that says Cummins is not proof that Chevy trucks came with 6bt engines.

 

[Skinny]

I agree, you can buy an S-10 (along with a LUV) and Ranger with a diesel. You could back in the day (which is when stuff was generally cooler, also happened to fall on a Tuesday...) and you can still get them with a diesel (not in the US market). It exists, they are on Craigslist and Ebay not all day long but pop up here and there. It simply doesn't exist for this magical elusive Chevy Cummins truck. Sorry

OEM is cool, staying original is even better...but upgrading with modern technology when it is affordable, more reliable, and just plain makes more sense is for the win.

Fusible links work but no one uses them today because a Maxi fuse is better. Box filters work but spin ons are simply better and affordable. I don't see that as an argument or something interpretable.