Sherman m4A2 BARV

[Another Ahab]

See post 22, this thread. The A1, A2... suffix has to do with which engine it uses, not what design/production generation it is. All the models were produced contemporaneously.

Ran across this variant, and wondered if anybody knows something about it (amphib?).

The reference to it was "Sherman m4A2 BARV".

Link might be a better image than the static picture here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/13963542@N08/14596540574/in/faves-deckarudo/​

 

[steelypip]

Wikipedia provides some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_armoured_recovery_vehicle

The original BARV was a Sherman M4A2 tank which had been waterproofed and had the turret replaced by a tall armoured superstructure. Around 60 were deployed on the invasion beaches during the Battle of Normandy. Able to operate in 9-foot (2.7 metre) deep water, the BARV was used to remove vehicles that had become broken-down or swamped in the surf and were blocking access to the beaches. They were also used to re-float small landing craft that had become stuck on the beach. Unusually for a tank, the crew included a diver whose job was to attach towing chains to stuck vehicles.

The vehicles were developed and operated by the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. The Sherman M4A2 model was chosen as a basis for the BARV as it was thought that the Sherman's welded hull would be easier to waterproof than other tanks. Unlike other Sherman models, the M4A2 was powered by a diesel engine because it was believed the tank would be less affected by the sudden temperature changes caused by the regular plunges into cold water.
A few Sherman BARV's continued to be used until 1963, when they were replaced by a vehicle based on the Centurion tank.

 

[Another Ahab]

Wow.

I'd heard about the "floating" Shermans during the Normandy landing (with the inflatable skirt), but this is the first I've heard of these BARV's.

Thanks, steelypip.

 

[steelypip]

Yes, the Duplex Drive Shermans are better known, but then there were probably a lot more than 60 of them in the battle. Their 'watery deathtrap' quality may have had something to do with their fame as well.

Does anybody know if the BARVs used the same duplex drive system as the normal amphibious Sherman or something better?

 

[Another Ahab]

Yes, the Duplex Drive Shermans are better known, but then there were probably a lot more than 60 of them in the battle. Their 'watery deathtrap' quality may have had something to do with their fame as well.

Does anybody know if the BARVs used the same duplex drive system as the normal amphibious Sherman or something better?

"Duplex" was a screw propellor (in addition to tracks)?

 

[steelypip]

Not only was it a screw propeller, it was two screw propellers, each one driven by the rear track sprocket on that side. Apparently the props were steerable by the driver and there was also a rudder operated by the commander. Speed was supposed to be around 4 knots. I suppose you could also steer by using the normal steering brakes, as that would vary the speed of one track or the other resulting in differential thrust steering just like any multi screw boat or ship uses.

The wikipedia article has some detail, but this page shows a picture of the DD mechanism at the back of the tank:
http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m4_sherman_dd.php

 

[Another Ahab]

From steelypip's link above; pretty grim story. Don't hear it much. But of course, those tankers did as they were told; duty. They buttoned up, dogged the hatches and never returned to tell the tale.

Soldiering is a mostly thankless job, and so much about war just sucks. What you going to do. I say a prayer here for the tankers who never made the beach:



When introduced to US troops in training in England in the Spring of 1944, the Sherman DD was instantly unpopular. Called "Donald Ducks" they were not trusted to be seaworthy even in smooth waters, let alone choppy seas. Early reports from the training urged caution in their use, limiting use to calmer waters and launch-distance within 3,000 yards from shore. Higher echelons did not heed the recommendations.


The 741st Tank Battalion at OMAHA Beach launched as scheduled 4,000 yards offshore. Some of the DDs sank immediately as they exited their landing craft, others advanced a few yards and then foundered. Of the 32 that were launched, 27 sank before reaching shore.

The results obtained by the use of the DD tanks on D-Day do not appear to have justified the extensive research, development, and training that went into deploying them. The DD tanks did not provide the needed fire support that was required by the first landing waves, and their fragile construction resulted in the needless loss of well-trained tank crews.

Just why it was felt that the DD tanks were necessary for the D-Day plan has never been adequately explained. By keeping the Sherman DD secret prior to D-Day, it may have been assumed that the DD’s were such an unknown and inoffensive appearing object (looking much like a life raft) that the Germans would not fire upon them, giving the DD’s the advantage of tactical surprise. With hindsight, that was clearly a poor assumption.

Probably time to go back to the OP.

 

[Jeepsinker]

The crews are probably still in their tanks in the bottom of the channel too, never to be recovered. Seems almost wrong to never have them return home and have a proper burial, but also would feel wrong to remove them.

 

[M543A2]

Reference the comments by Another Ahab about a wound from wooden bullets, I have a collection of wartime cartridges stored somewhere. In it I remember a wooden bullet in one of them. I believe they were banned by the Geneva Convention, but that had little deterrence at times! Accuracy had to suck I would think; close range effective only and velocity had to drop off rapidly. A surgeons' nightmare! I hope I can find it and post more about it.
Regards Martin

 

[SD T16]

The BARV was simply an M4A2 with an extended structure on top to keep water out. It did NOT float one bit! It would just wade in the surf. There is only one operational unit left and it is in the UK. It was at the 70th anniversary of D-Day. You can see some pictures I took here:
http://seanfoto.com/d-day70th/h13d97e32#h13d97e32

They were having fun thrashing through the surf on the 6th.

Here are some youtube links from that day as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_7oebpUyi4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgf_SJcBK4U


Enjoy!

SD

 

[Another Ahab]

Reference the comments by Another Ahab about a wound from wooden bullets, I have a collection of wartime cartridges stored somewhere. In it I remember a wooden bullet in one of them. I believe they were banned by the Geneva Convention, but that had little deterrence at times! Accuracy had to suck I would think; close range effective only and velocity had to drop off rapidly. A surgeons' nightmare! I hope I can find it and post more about it.
Regards Martin

Man, that would be great, 3A2:

- Outside of hearing the story from my Uncle (one of his two Silver Stars, I believe; he'd never really tell you), I've never read or heard anything else about it.

For what it's worth the episode was sometime after the action at the Bulge. If I remember right, they were tanking somewhere around an Autobahn so it was somewhere inside Germany.

 

[CARNAC]

Wooden bullet rounds were made for training purposes.

 

[Another Ahab]

Wooden bullet rounds were made for training purposes.

So maybe episode was an encounter with a home-guard, you think? Like a last ditch defense, and training rounds would be all they had?

Unfortunately I don't know the timing of the event, or where they were exactly. The rounds shattered at a vision slot in his tank and that's where he took the wound.