Behr Paint adhesión question.

[drpyloo]

Hey folks, I have a few questions about the Behr paint process and adhesion that I hope you all can help me with. However, I will provide some background info first.

Over the winter, I started a project on my Jeep Cherokee (I know it's not an MV, but I wanted my XJ to match my Deuce; and from all I read, I wanted a really heavy duty paint for the off roading I will be doing with it). I sanded the car down and prepped it for paint just as if I was going to do a regular base/clear; with the exception, I did not primer the car.

I read wsucougarx's thread and just about memorized it, so I would have no error. I used the Behr Premium Exterior flat with the 384th code.

After prepping, I gave it 4 light coats with one of the cheap HF guns. I kind of had no choice, but to wait about a day or two between coats because of my work schedule and time constraints. But, I figured the time between the coats wouldn't hurt the curing process. Jumping ahead, I finally finished all of my painting, after about 4 months; of which the car was in my garage the entire time. Of course, I would bring the car outside to get sun whenever I was working on it and figured 4 months would have been more than enough time for curing.

Call me paranoid, but after all of this time I don't feel the paint has either cured correctly or adhered to the surface. When removing the tape some of the paint peeled off the body a little too easily and I noticed the paint seemed "soft". I've also run my nail through the paint and it also scratches too easily. Also, when I rub the paint with my hands it almost seems to develop somewhat of a white haze.

I finally brought the car out of the garage and I have started letting it sit outside. We've been having heavy rains here in GA. Today when I came home from work, I noticed a couple of small sections where the paint seems to be bubbling, almost like water bubbles.

Finally, for the questions.
How hard should the paint be when totally cured?
Should I have used any type of primer on the body? If so, is there any thing I could do to save all of the hours of work I've invested?
I'm beginning to think maybe I should have used the Behr Premium/Primer instead of just the regular exterior?
Is there any type of sealer I could use to better dry or harden the paint? Or, make the paint tougher, or as tough as the CARC on the deuce?

Any tips, suggestions or remarks on what I did right/wrong are welcome since this is my first run at this. My next project was/is going to be the deuce; but at this point I'm kind of skeptical of painting the deuce with this type of paint.

My apologies for the long post, but I want to be as detailed as possible for you folks. I tried uploading photos of the process, but I seem to be having technical difficulties.

 

[Coffey1]

Yes you should have used behr marquee paint with primer.
It cures quickly .

 

[drpyloo]

So, does that mean I'm going to have to start all over? Or is there any way to save what I've got?

 

[Shark Bait]

I don't have an answer, but I am interested to know. I've got some bare metal parts to paint and was going to use Behr paint and primer in one.

 

[jeremymx26]

I am interested in this as well.

 

[wsucougarx]

You didn't use primer? I shot all my bare metal and rust prone areas with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer before applying Behr. On areas where I didn't use this primer (over CARC) the rust bled through the Behr paint. Though Behr paint will cure tough, it still needs something to adhere to. CARC was an outstanding undercoat for the Behr paint. I've had bubbles in my paint if I forgot to thoroughly degrease, apply primer, or it got wet before it cured. Once cured this paint is really really tough stuff. I inadvertently side swiped the bed of my M35A2 on a 4x4 post while pulling the truck out. The paint didn't so much as peel. Though it was a bit scratched up.

 

[Tow4]

You should use the Behr ultra that is paint and primer. Once cured the Behr ultra is very hard.

 

[drpyloo]

You didn't use primer? I shot all my bare metal and rust prone areas with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer before applying Behr. On areas where I didn't use this primer (over CARC) the rust bled through the Behr paint. Though Behr paint will cure tough, it still needs something to adhere to. CARC was an outstanding undercoat for the Behr paint. I've had bubbles in my paint if I forgot to thoroughly degrease, apply primer, or it got wet before it cured. Once cured this paint is really really tough stuff. I inadvertently side swiped the bed of my M35A2 on a 4x4 post while pulling the truck out. The paint didn't so much as peel. Though it was a bit scratched up.

I did prime the spots that had rust or bare metal on the car like you. I used the Rustoleum primer in a can. What I did not do, was prime the entire car. However, I did not sand it down to bare metal. I only sanded down to the base coat kind of like when painting Base/Clear. I figured the base would act as my primer and the Behr would stick to that. I guess, now that I'm figuring I missed the primer step. Is there a easier way of stripping this paint off the car without having to sand it all the way down again?

The biggest concern that I now have is the fact the paint does not seem as tough/dry as I was hoping it would be. I do not have an issue with stripping the paint off and re-applying the Behr Primer/Paint. I just want to make sure it sticks and stays for my intent and use of the car.

 

[drpyloo]

 

[drpyloo]

 

[drpyloo]

Here are shots of the car prepped right before I began spraying. I primed a few of the spots that had rust and such, but I figured the base would be my "primer". Did I goof up by not using the Behr Primer/Paint? If so any ideas on solutions?

 

[drpyloo]

This is after two coats. It seemed to be sticking well at that point, LOL.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Your paint is not dry yet. Probably should have done the coats about a week apart, instead of a day. Think about it - you put the first coat on and the surface dried but it's still wet inside, then you added another coat, which did the same thing, and again. So you have three or four coats of paint that are alternating wet and dry and the only way the wet paint underneath can dry out is to soften the dry paint closer to the surface so the water can escape. But the water on the lower layers really does not know which way to go. It will eventually dry from the outside to the inside, but as you are finding out, may take months of sunshine and heat to accomplish.

 

[Coffey1]

First off did you take a Scotch bright pad to the entire truck to dull the clear coat.
I then would have shot the entire truck one time and even you had some places that needed going over do it right then.
I shot my M923A2 in a day an hour later the paint was dry a week later and it's hard.

Here's what I would take your chances to see if it dries or
Take a pressure washer to it at close range and see what comes off.

 

[drpyloo]

Your paint is not dry yet. Probably should have done the coats about a week apart, instead of a day. Think about it - you put the first coat on and the surface dried but it's still wet inside, then you added another coat, which did the same thing, and again. So you have three or four coats of paint that are alternating wet and dry and the only way the wet paint underneath can dry out is to soften the dry paint closer to the surface so the water can escape. But the water on the lower layers really does not know which way to go. It will eventually dry from the outside to the inside, but as you are finding out, may take months of sunshine and heat to accomplish.

That makes a whole lot of sense. I had not thought about it that way. I am just hoping that with all the rain we are getting here in Georgia the paint does not start washing off. I guess I will let it run its course. Worst come to worst, I may do what Coffey said. Take a pressure washer to it and start all over. Thank you guys for the input. I will keep the thread posted and we shall see what happens.

Coffey, I sanded the entire car down to the base coat prior to painting. What I did not do was primer the car prior to paint. I was afraid of using a car based primer and the water based Behr not sticking to it. I did not think of using the Behr Primer/Paint either.

 

[Shark Bait]

After sanding and priming what did you wipe/clean the truck with before painting it?

 

[MWMULES]

Behr works great over flat CARC and never had a problem with it on that kind of surface. I have also used it on 2 880's that were both fire brush rigs before I got them. They both were painted gloss wildland yellow and even though I scuffed and wiped down with thinner years ago when I painted them, I still have the occasional spot where the paint just pops off or limb knocks some off. I carry baby food jars of the 3 colors I used in the glove box and a wide artists brush and just touch up when it happens. Another thing I noticed in in the few areas were I had used Rustoleum primer and let it dry for a full day before adding the Behr it stuck much better and anywhere there was rush I sanded and used Rustoleum and not the Behr as primer. The paint guys I have talked to stated that the primer in Behr is more for bare sheet rock/wood than metal. The third Dodge I used it on was still Carc when I did it and no problems at all with it even on the bird bath hood that will pool water after a rain.

Behr great on flats and conventional primed surface, Behr on gloss not as good without lots of prep.

 

[mikey]

Ive used the Behr paint on a number of parts and on a whole truck. You really need to give it time to cure. What the Behr paint LOVES is sun and heat. I left a freshly painted deuce in the sun for four straight really sunny 90f days and it was cured as hard as a rock. Other items that I painted in my garage over winter and that were stored at 50-60f took nearly a month to cure. I now paint in the garage in the winter then move my parts in the basement (room temperature) after they are no longer "wet". At room temperature they still take almost 2 weeks to cure. This Behr paint REALLY likes that nice hot direct sunlight, so I'd suggest letting it sit inside until you can leave it outside for a couple of really nice hot days. Although, I'm not sure at this point, if the multiple layers painted too quickly, will cure correctly even with the sun.

Mikey

 

[drpyloo]

After sanding and priming what did you wipe/clean the truck with before painting it?

I always use laquer thinner when ever I paint a vehicle. I usually clean all the surfaces and let it dry before I add paint. Then again, I usually use base/clear.

 

[drpyloo]

I am seeing the same trend from all of your posts. That is, lots of sun and heat. Neither of which my car have been able to get since I painted it 4 months ago. I kept it in the garage for the last 4 months hoping the paint would cure. But, due to the wet winter and now all of this rain we are getting. I guess it just has not been able to cure. I will take all of you all's advice. I'm going to park it back in the garage until it starts getting warm and sunny again. Thank you all greatly for the great information. I will keep you all posted.