Jammed Starter

[KaiserM109]

I've searched the postings, but I didn't find anything helpful. I'm hoping someone can give me a simple fix.

My M109 has sat for a while. A couple of months ago when it was bitter cold I tried to start it in temps around minus ten. It groaned, then there was a solid 'clunk' and it would not turn over. I worried that maybe I had hydro-locked the engine.

I waited 'til warm weather (mid 90s) to try again. I charged up the batteries. When I hit the starter button it didn't turn at all and buried the voltage. To test whether or not it was the engine, I put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in 4th (straight through). I was able to easily turn the engine by putting a bar between the bolt heads on the 'U' joint, so the engine isn't the problem. Hoping that this might free up the starter, maybe the gear was stuck on the flywheel, I made 2 full turns of the engine. It did exactly the same thing again.

The truck is a '66 M109A3 with a non-turbo engine. Any suggestions before I start doing an autopsy?

 

[dmetalmiki]

I don't know how you turned that engine with a jammed starter motor. If the starter motor is jammed in gear with the flywheel then you should turn the engine BACKWARDS. ( if a car jams you put it in, say, 3rd gear, and ROCK it backwards. OR, reverse and ROCK it forwards.
If the starter motor is not jammed in the flywheel, then the remedy has to be, remove the starter motor and service it. or have it serviced. let us know the outcome and resolution of the problem.

 

[KaiserM109]

I don't know how you turned that engine with a jammed starter motor. If the starter motor is jammed in gear with the flywheel then you should turn the engine BACKWARDS. ( if a car jams you put it in, say, 3rd gear, and ROCK it backwards. OR, reverse and ROCK it forwards.
If the starter motor is not jammed in the flywheel, then the remedy has to be, remove the starter motor and service it. or have it serviced. let us know the outcome and resolution of the problem.

I was able to turn it either way easily. I have had jammed starters on Jeeps and did exactly what you suggested with immediate success. Alas, WONUAA refused to cooperate.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Then I think I would check the solenoid/s, and make sure it (they) are not stuck, shorting out.

 

[rustystud]

I would just remove your starter and check it out. You could have broken the apply yoke or bendix spring or any number of things. Until you have it apart on a bench you are just guessing about what is wrong.
It could be something all together different. So lets eliminate the starter first.

 

[KaiserM109]

Good advice, rustystud. I'm planning to pull it this weekend. Even if, by some fluke, I got it working I would want to see the insides just to make sure it wasn't going to crap out away from home. I have been awfully lucky in the past 20 years because most of my breakdowns have been close to or at home. I think that is primarily because I believe in preventative maintenance.

I have never had to walk away from a vehicle in the back country yet, and I certainly don't want to start with a deuce.

 

[KaiserM109]

Time to scour the TM's, but I'm a bit lost. Downloading every TM, except the ones that obviously would not include starter motor information, will take me a long while. Is there someone who can shortcut my search by pointing me at the TM that shows how to disassemble the starter motor?

I have it off and laying on my back porch, but without taking drastic measures, which usually result in something broken, I can't get it open.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but did you jump the starter with 24V before open heart surgery? It may be as simple as a bad ground...

Also, a modern gear reduction starter is available, if your starter is truly u/s and you are looking for a reasonably priced alternative.

 

[KaiserM109]

I considered jumping it, but my overriding goal is to have a reliable vehicle that won't leave me stuck on the backside of Mt. Gunnison. Since the truck is almost 50 yr. old, I am concerned that whatever went wrong this time could happen again. I want to know why it stuck, if I can find out, and do a proper fix on it. The truck only has 16,000 miles, but who knows how many times it was started in the Arkansas National Guard's motor pool, or the year it spent in Iraq.

I put a brand new in-tank fuel pump from Olympic for about $250, instead of a pull-out for $50. A new starter motor might be a bit much for me right now, though. I'm hoping that I can identify the problem and do a rebuild.

 

[frank8003]

Where IS He!?
Always said something about "it is in the TM" or Read the TM's

View attachment TM 9-2920-243-34 starter A3.pdfView attachment starter troubleshoot.pdf

and there is lots more out there for free.............

M109

Shop Van

long

15,231 lb (6,909 kg)

20,581 lb (9,335 kg)

or the actual TM 9-2920-242-35 starter DR
View attachment TM 9-2920-242-35 starter DR.pdf

 

[KaiserM109]

frank8003,
THANKS, THANKS. I just downloaded that and will study it.

 

[frank8003]

frank8003,
THANKS, THANKS. I just downloaded that and will study it.

There is more, same post updated.

 

[KaiserM109]

Update, but not a conclusion.

I started to take the starter apart but, even with the TM that frank8003, which was the correct one, I decided that I ought to let someone with some experience look at it. I took it to a local starter and alternator repair shop who said they would charge $50 to look at it. Having royally screwed up the governor, I decided that would be money well spent.

"Nothing wrong with it," was the verdict. They cleaned it, lubed it, reassembled it and tested it, worth $50 to me! He suggested that I probably have a cable problem, most likely the frame-to-engine strap.

To be Continued ...

 

[3dAngus]

Well, that spares me from making the recommendation you just buy a new in the box starter for $200.
There used to be some in the classifieds. Shipping might hurt though.
Good luck with the fix.

 

[KaiserM109]

This is the end of the Jammed Starter post, but not the end of my troubles.

I feel a little foolish about not being able to see what caused all my trouble. Before starting all this I put the batteries in parallel and charged them with a 12 volt charger 'til the current dropped way down. It was COLD, as in below zero F., and when I tried to start it, I thought I heard a big 'clunk', but now I am questioning that.

After the ordeal of pulling the starter, paying $50 to find out it was OK, and single-handedly putting it back in, (a buck in the tip jar for the guy who invented come-alongs) I had someone else start (or try to) while I monitored the batteries. The rear one is as dead as a battery can be; it has all the symptoms of being sulfated over, High open circuit voltage but it drops to zero when a load is applied.

For the short term I'm going to borrow a battery out of my M923 and run it on 2. When the money starts flowing back into my budget barrel, I will replace the bad one.

Thanks for everyone's concern and the suggestions.