MEP 802A Hook Up

[SandBar]

So I finally got time to get one of the 802A's hooked up. This one is at the barn (less than 100 hours on it). The barn is fed from the load center at the house, and I am using a simple homeline interlock to allow a two pole breaker to be engage when the main breaker is off. That said, I believe I need to give the generator its own ground rod (there is not one at the barn).

I ran the generator prior to hooking it up and verified it is set up for single phase, 60 hz, all looks to be in order.

So, grounding rod or no grounding rod needed? I live in the lightning capitol of the world so....

Tip: You can get a small solar panel kit with a simple plastic mount on ebay for +- 30.00, and it will keep your batteries topped off.

 

[jamawieb]

If you do some searching, this has been covered extensively. You're going to get people that say yes and others say no. If your breaker box is grounded (like it should), then I would not use a ground rod. This is just my opinion based on what I've read from experienced members here on the site

 

[steelandcanvas]

Duplicate post.

 

[steelandcanvas]

WRONG HOOK-UP! The Neutral (white wire) should be attached to terminal LO! The Ungrounded Conductors (hots) should be attached to L1 and L3! If you do not have a ground at the barn, you need to drive a ground rod and attach to the terminal marked "GND". The interlock you installed is good insurance that things won't go wrong, but don't fire that genset up the way you have it wired now.

 

[SandBar]

I appreciate the feedback, this is one of the forums I really trust and appreciate the insight of.

steelandcanvas: The wires were simply taped at both sides so they could be matched up, L0 is indeed on the neutral rail inside.

My electrician (ex AF and master electrician for the school board), said because we ran 220 ( 3 wires) we wouldn't need a ground at the barn, but obviously that goes out the window when I kill the mains. I will get a ground rod installed today and hooked up.

 

[steelandcanvas]

I appreciate the feedback, this is one of the forums I really trust and appreciate the insight of.

steelandcanvas: The wires were simply taped at both sides so they could be matched up, L0 is indeed on the neutral rail inside.

My electrician (ex AF and master electrician for the school board), said because we ran 220 ( 3 wires) we wouldn't need a ground at the barn, but obviously that goes out the window when I kill the mains. I will get a ground rod installed today and hooked up.

Your electrician, albeit has an impressive resume, is incorrect. It has nothing to do with the 3 wires running from your house service panel. It has everything to do with the grounding conductor not being carried out to the barn with the 2 ungrounded conductors (HOTs), and the grounded conductor (Neutral). If you don't drive a ground rod, you will not have an acceptable path to ground. The Ground and Neutral are not bonded together in the genset like they are in your service panel. What panel did you install your interlock in? Main Service Panel (house) or a sub-panel in the barn?

 

[SandBar]

Interlock is installed at the barn. So I need a ground rod tied into the ground on the panel and tied to the ground lug on the generator? I thought that created a ground loop.

 

[DieselAddict]

Grounding can be really confusing. The basic thing to remember is this, you can have many (properly installed) grounds in a distribution system but the neutral and ground should be BONDED (electrically connected) in only one location. Ideally you would connect all ground rods together in a system. That isn't always practical when you are dealing with remote buildings.

Edit - After reading the latest code the info below would not be correct. I've corrected the info in post http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?143942-MEP-802A-Hook-Up&p=1760965&viewfull=1#post1760965

In your situation since you have only 3 wires going out to the barn you should drive a ground rod, install a ground buss in the panel, and connect it to the ground rod. Any ground conductors from the circuits in the barn should be connected to that local ground bus. The neutral buss should be kept UNBONDED (electrically isolated) from that ground buss.

At the generator you should run a ground wire from the GND lug to the ground rod for the barn. You should make sure the ground lug and the neutral lug in the generator are UNBONDED (electrically isolated) from each other.

And please get some different colored tape to identify the conductors. White has a specific meaning and an inspector would fail you for using white on a load conductor. The convention for voltages under 330v is black, red, and blue for loads. For over 330v its orange, brown, and yellow.

 

[steelandcanvas]

No ground loop since there is no grounding wire between the service and the sub. Your genset in your application is a separately derived service, and you need to establish a ground point. You will need to run a grounding wire from the genset to the sub.

 

[SandBar]

Will change the tape, Thank you so much. The barn has a galvalume exterior, should I ground the outside of it as well to provide a better path for lightning into the ground should it get hit (I live in Florida )?

 

[DieselAddict]

Is the building structure metal as well or is it a wooden building with a metal skin?

 

[steelandcanvas]

I don't have to drive a ground rod for my genset, I carry 4 wires from the distribution lugs to my main service panel, thereby using the grounding electrode system of my main service. If I were to use the genset as a separately derived system, such as in a remote location, I would have to drive a ground rod. Clear as mud 'eh? A lot of electricians struggle with grounding and bonding, and it does get pretty complex in some applications.

 

[SandBar]

It is wood with metal skin, metal trusses.

I went ahead and installed an 8 ft ground rod and tested it out. I was able to get two 2.5 ton split system air conditioners, two large gable fans, several small inside fans, all lights and a dehumidifer running at about 65 percent load. I went to add another 2.5 ton air conditioner and bank of auxillary lights and it chugged hard like it was going to die so I stopped there.

I am impressed it was able to do what it did really. Next up is the other 802A at the house. I am thinking of installing a 50 amp RV outlet at the load center on the outside.

 

[dependable]

Hopefully you understand about the "only one ground to neutral bond" in your system that DieselAddict mentioned above.

In the 802 there is a strap between ground & LO. You should know whether it should be hooked in or not depending on your set up.

If you don't know, you should look into it until you do understand or hire someone that does.

I understand this pretty well after some learning, but would not give site specific advice to a hook up I have not seen.

 

[SandBar]

Yes indeed, I have my electrician coming by next week to make sure all is well and to install digital amp meters in both locations so I can watch the load from inside.

 

[jamawieb]

It is wood with metal skin, metal trusses.

I went ahead and installed an 8 ft ground rod and tested it out. I was able to get two 2.5 ton split system air conditioners, two large gable fans, several small inside fans, all lights and a dehumidifer running at about 65 percent load. I went to add another 2.5 ton air conditioner and bank of auxillary lights and it chugged hard like it was going to die so I stopped there.

I am impressed it was able to do what it did really. Next up is the other 802A at the house. I am thinking of installing a 50 amp RV outlet at the load center on the outside.

View attachment 578608

Looking at your picture, you may want to consider increasing your hertz. Only running at 60% your hertz looks to be around 58. I start mine at at 61.5 hertz and when its fully loaded may go to 58 but usually stays at 59 or above.

 

[steelandcanvas]

The charging system looks like it's not putting out like it should, notice the needle just out of the red?

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
Some do not understand a barn's power situation. I see you have done some thinking since you used a main service panel at the barn instead of a simple sub-panel. That is why your able to use a interlock. Because of distances involved, here in Virginia, you would have that panel grounded at that location. The potential for ground loop is there, but the distances involved are what comes into play. Either way, what you are doing is creating a separately derived power which will need bonding and grounding at the generator. On my barns, all have a series of three ground rods driven with lightning rods along the peak. The generator if connected at the panel at the barn would have the neutral and ground bar attached at the generator, and 4 wires to your panel.

If using a generator at the house with the main service being bonded with ground, then you would use 4 wires and NOT the have neutral and ground bar in place. Since the main panel you are connecting to is bonded.

Like anything, take internet advice with a grain of salt. Electricity is dangerous and should be done correctly for everyone's safety.

 

[SandBar]

Thanks all.

The Hz did drop, good tip.

This unit had a bad alternator when I got it, and i replaced it from a NOS unit from ebay and it shows charging now even though the meter doesn't. I did not take a picture but I have a solar panel mounted on this unit to keep the battery topped off as well.

The distance from the house to the barn is roughly 400 ft, the barn has metal skin and roof, I will look into more ground rods as well. Out local Home Depot gets hit several times per summer and have seen holes in the metal roof there from lightning damage (my barn has been up 2 years with no issues to date).

I read this page: http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com...eutral-and-the-ground-wire-in-the-main-panel/

I will ask the local electrician for input of course, but as I understand the neutral and ground may need to be bonded at the generator in my case.

 

[Daybreak]

Thanks all.

The Hz did drop, good tip.

This unit had a bad alternator when I got it, and i replaced it from a NOS unit from ebay and it shows charging now even though the meter doesn't. I did not take a picture but I have a solar panel mounted on this unit to keep the battery topped off as well.

The distance from the house to the barn is roughly 400 ft, the barn has metal skin and roof, I will look into more ground rods as well. Out local Home Depot gets hit several times per summer and have seen holes in the metal roof there from lightning damage (my barn has been up 2 years with no issues to date).

I read this page: http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com...eutral-and-the-ground-wire-in-the-main-panel/

I will ask the local electrician for input of course, but as I understand the neutral and ground may need to be bonded at the generator in my case.

Howdy,
You might have the copper plate in place at the barn, and not in place at your house. In other words, at the barn using ground rods the generator is the primary. The generator is grounded to the rod and copper plate is in place between ground and neutral on the generator panel. At your house, the main service entrance is grounded, you would then remove the copper plate from ground-neutral contact since your panel is the main bonded ground-neutral location. I believe you said you have 2 units...

Good luck.