need alignment advice. Got alignment. Now have Death Wobble. What to do?

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The truck was running fine. I took it on to get the alignment checked, just as a precaution. The shop was recommended by my regular mechanic, who doesn't do alignments. The shop gets good reviews, and the mechanics have enough gray hair to have seen it all.

On the way home, I got the Death wobble for the first time ever. The first time it was mild, and went away when I slowed down in traffic. I thought it seemed weird, but I figured maybe it was a road surface issue. The second time it was far more dramatic. It felt like the right front tire was jumping a foot in the air with each rotation. I pulled over and looked around, thinking perhaps they forgot to tighten the lug nuts or something. (It happens.) I found nothing loose, but it was leaking coolant. Evidently the shaking shook something loose.

When the guy checked the alignment, he said the spec called for 0, and it was off by 1/16 (.0625). He was able to adjust it easily, and had it precisely aligned at 0. The TM says +/- .0375.

In http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-Fixing-it-with-the-steering-stabilizer/page3 #21Skinny wrote, "Most rigs call for 1/16" toe in."

That's what I had before. Did my alignment guy just screw up a perfectly aligned truck? What should the alignment be? I did search for this, but found no alignment specs other than the TM reference above.

When I got home, the coolant leak had stopped. I had no pressure in the coolant hoses, so I opened the cap and the coolant was about 2" below the cap. I had just driven about 6 miles at about 30 mph. Is is normal for the coolant to have no pressure like that? How long does it take for the 6.2 to heat up? I've never really looked at the cooling system, besides having it flushed and the hoses all replaced by a pro. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the leak was around the water pump. I didn't look closely until I got home, and the leak had stopped by then.

 

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Just spoke to the mechanic. All he did was adjust the toe-in from 1/16 to 0, and lube the chassis. He didn't loosen any other fasteners. He looked up the toe-in spec in 2 different places, and both said 0. TM says +/- 0.375, so 0 certainly seems within range. I don't know if I should bring it back to him, or avoid him.

I've never dug into the details about alignment. I've read the books about caster and camber and toe-in, but when it comes to my vehicles, I just take it to an alignment shop and ask them to align it.

If anyone has pointers to the proper CUCV alignment recommendations, beyond the TM's +/- 0.375, I'd appreciate some advice from those who know.

For 1/16 off, we debated leaving it alone, but I'm contemplating some long road trips, so it seemed worth getting it "just right".

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Death wobble means worn parts, somewhere, most of the time. Its possible he just exposed an existing problem. In any case, I'd take it back and have him look at it.

Even good people sometimes make dumb mistakes. I'd give him a chance to fix it.

 

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The truck has 3800 miles on it. I'd believe dried-out rubber parts, or maybe a corroded part, but it hasn't had a chance to get worn.

Going back to him now. I just wish I had solid info on what toe-in should be on a stock CUCV M1010. I've seen threads that suggest 0 can cause death wobble, and it should be 1/16. But those are just rumors...

 

[Chaski]

Is it crossover steering or stock drag link?

 

[ODFever]

jpg - Please read my thread. Warthog added it to the Helpful Threads page. It may not be a bad idea to replace the same components on your truck. The parts are relatively inexpensive; peace of mind is priceless.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?125140-M1009-Tie-Rod-End-Replacement-Project

 

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Is it crossover steering or stock drag link?

suspension is stock. all i've done is lube it and (mis?)align it.

mechanic is looking at it now. he corrected me, it was 1/16 toe OUT. he brought it in to 0

i called ORD, thinking they would know. they said you need a little toe-in or it will wander.

wander? this was a full gallop!!

if mecanic finds nothing, i'm thinking we change to 1/16 toe in? unless someone has a better idea...

 

[jpg]

jpg - Please read my thread. Warthog added it to the Helpful Threads page. It may not be a bad idea to replace the same components on your truck. The parts are relatively inexpensive; peace of mind is priceless.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?125140-M1009-Tie-Rod-End-Replacement-Project

I did read your thread, when searching for toe-in recommendations. My parts are not worn, and they adjust easily. the question is what to adjust them to.

i have an m1010 with 4.56 axles. I'm not sure if that changes the front end parts required. i suspect not, but i seem to recall reading that our front axles differ.

thanks!

 

[Gunzy]

I would set the total toe at 1/16 toe in and redrive. If the death wobble is gone, then you are done. The 1/16 toe in is to acommidate for rolling resistance of the tires which has a tendacy to make the front tires toe out when driving. 0 would give a toe out during driving as a result of rolling resistance of the tires.

 

[Chaski]

I run about 1/8" toe in on my rig (with 37" tires), and it behaves. It is possible you have kingpin issues, it may be worth it for piece of mind to pull the cap and arm off, toss the old springs and bushings and inspect everything. A bushing kit with new 5 coil springs is cheap insurance. If you feel like really digging into things pull it apart and replace the bearings at the same time on the lower pin. You can support your front axle so that your tire is just off the ground and try to manhandle it to see if you have any slop, but even if you cannot move it by hand does not mean that your kingpin isn't the source of the problem.

 

[eme411]

check your steering damper and front shocks, make sure some individual did not use your truck for parts for his and put the crap parts on your truck , make sure you have the heavy duty parts where they should be,

 

[Bob H]

Toe in toe out no matter death wobble is a result of something being loose or worn.
Silly low miles on a 30 year old truck doesn't matter, something (or multiple somethings) is loose or worn. You mentioned just the right front tire jumping, any DW I've ever encountered shakes both tires, check your right front tire for issues.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

Belt broken in tire causing a hump on the tire thread?
Just a thought.

 

[fitz]

My experience with the Dana 60 is that even a slight amount of play in any component can bring on the death wobble.
Like Chaski said, I'd start with the spring & bushing kit. I think I paid $38 for the kit at South Shore Bearing in Quincy Ma (they had it in stock). Even though you have a low mileage rig, that heavy 6.2 has still been sitting on those springs & bushings for 30 years.
As far as the death wobble starting after the alignment, stranger things have happened. My M1028 developed the death wobble the day I installed my 2" Tough Country HD front springs. I'm not blaming the Tough Country springs, they just exposed my next weak link in the suspension.
My truck had just passed the state inspection where the tech checked the front end. The report showed everything was within spec. I thought the same thing as you about the low mileage (my truck had 35k on it). Although people on this site tell you to not trust the odometer, its not like I had a beat to death plow truck.
I took the death wobble challenge head on ( the guys at Napa supplied the parts except for the spring & bushing kit). I had a rough road near my house that would cause the death wobble every time. I would drive down this road to check my progress after each part was installed until the issue was resolved.
New parts installed:
-Shocks were new when lift was installed.
-Dana 60 spring & bushing kit
-Front steering stabalizer
-Adjusted front wheel bearings
-New drag link
None of this solved the problem. I pulled some used tires off my parts M1008 and tried them, still no change.
I got the complete Moog tie rod set up, and the truck drove like new (well, at least good for a 30 rear old, lifted, 5/4 ton truck).
As far as my alignment goes, my truck always went down the road straight. I set up the new tie rod with the measuments off the old 1.
Before removing the old tie rod I got (2) 2' sections of angle iron and marked the angle iron at the 1' mark (center). I pulled off the front tires and bolted the angle iron to the rotors with 2 lug nuts on each rotor. I had the angle iron running parallel to the groung. The center of the angle iron was under the the locking hub. This left the angle iron with 1' behind the center of the rotor and 1' in front. Now I measured both ends of the angle iron from rotor to rotor. When I subtracted the front number from the rear, I came up with 1/16". I did this again after installing the new tie rod & came up with the same numbers. Close enough for me.

 

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I got the truck with 1911 miles on it. It now has about 3850 miles on it, 1,000 of my miles were interstate, 800 on secondary roads. I had no death wobble until today when I got it aligned.
Truck came with 1/16" toe out. Drove fine, with a slight pull to the right.
I took it in to have the alignment checked, just because it had probably never been done.
They aligned it to 0 toe-in, per spec, which took one full rotation of the sleeve. Front right tire death wobbled on the way home.
Took it back and they changed it to 1/16 toe-in. Front left tire death wobbled on the way home.
Back again tomorrow. They want to drive it before making more adjustments.

By "death wobble", I mean that the tire jumped up and down, seemingly once each rotation. It seemed like it jumped a foot. It jumped higher if I accelerated. It calmed down if I got on the brakes and slowed way down. While it was jumping, the truck felt like a paint mixer.

I can't reproduce the death wobble at will. It just seems to happen. If there's a known way to make it happen, that might help me demonstrate it to the mechanic.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

My money is on the kingpin springs.

 

[fitz]

I know its frustrating, but you will get it resolved. The good news is that there is only a limited number of things it can be (alignment, tires, shocks, steering stabilizer, tie rod, drag link, springs & bushings, etc...). I think most CUCV's haven't been driven enough to wear out the king pins.
My death wobble was driving me nuts. Every time I thought I fixed the problem, a 10 minute ride would prove me wrong. I spent about $500 in parts by the time I fixed mine ( it was worth every dollar).Hopefully the alignment fixes yours. How old are your tires? If you have to dig into it deeper than the alignment, you can borrow my front tires for a test ride to eliminate the possibility that your tires have a bad belt in them. I'm 25 minutes south of Boston.

 

[fitz]

My money is on the kingpin springs.

That's what I'm thinking. At around $40, its a good place to start after putting the alignment back to where it was.
Some guys have removed the spring cap and stack a few washers on top of the saggy springs, but for $40, I'd replace them.

 

[sweetk30]

x100 .

fixed a lot of them this way .

get a pair of new spicer springs and bushings and gaskets .

over time the spring sags out and wont hold the correct tension on the bushing and cause it to go crazy over a bump and DEATH WOBBLE .

I have seen it personaly on my 1 truck with just 1/16" less spring hight from age and sagged out . installed new and gone .

few nice upgrades is crane off road spring eliminator kit .

and reid racing bronze bushing kit .

but for street / stock use reg old spicer parts be just fine.

 

[sschaefer3]

This happened to me just last Friday. I have ORD crossover, I told them just do toe in toe out and I will do the draglink. I called and they said the guy was having trouble. I said how? It is the easiest thing to align? Then he goes on to say he is taking the steering wheel off and the bent link, I am like I told you not to do anything with that.

The guy took the TRE's out and damaged one, now it has death wobble. This place always did really well for me in the past, but a 29 year old truck they were clueless. I have new TRE's from ORD on the way. Anytime someone other then me touches the truck they screw it up.