CUCV Manual transmission

[Ball]

Can anybody confirm if a 96+ model Chevy NV4500 will work in a '85 CUCV? The ratios on the older model NV4500 (compared to the 92-95) look better for 4.56 axles.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Yup it will work,,,, biggest thing is bellhousing and transfer case. the bell will have the issue of hydro clutch or manual... Manual will take some creation to mount a linkage. the hydro will need to be moved outside of the bellhousing with a bracket.. I suggest getting AA's bracket and cutting it up and rewelding it in a config that is more usable. The stock bell for the NV4500 puts the slave on the passenger side thus no good here. the aftermarket ones have it on the driver side (AA again) but thats about $400...... You can find one of the old SM465 bells and bore out the center hole, this has been done too.... The 4500 clutch is a fairly simple 12" GM truck clutch but make sure you have the one for diesel or the center will eventually blow out... also find the solid flywheel, (gives less trouble than the dualmass.
The other end,,,,,, the output can be touchy,,,,, You will need to find a NP205 from off a TH400. this will have the 27 or 29(cant remember) spline output with a 6 bolt round pattern. The NP208 off a later SM465 will be the same but its a lighter T case and chain drive,,,, easier shifts but weaker and not twin stick adaptable. ( I have both laying in my shop floor, 1 for the Willys, and 1 for the 65 GMC)

Note on earlier GM 4500s..... Pre 95 ran a proprietary bellhousing to trans bolt pattern that is hard to find a correct bell for.... post 95 GM and Dodge ran the same bell to trans pattern opening up the world to swapping the input shaft from dodge to GM or vice versa.
Pre 95 GM also ran the super low 6: ?? to 1 first gear (called "L" on the shifter) but the OD was the same as all other models GM or Dodge. Post 95 GM did away with the super low and went with the 5: ?? like Dodge.

Confused yet.....?????? If you need to call me,,, I have all of the above laying in the floor,,,measurements/spline counts etc
J. Stiver 307-282-0773

 

[Ball]

I might have to make a trip to Devil's Tower and do some rock climbing while mulling the situation over.

Why can't one keep the slave cylinder where it is?

 

[Ball]

Oh, and the m1010 would have a mp208 stock and should bolt right in, as I understand it.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

I might have to make a trip to Devil's Tower and do some rock climbing while mulling the situation over.

Why can't one keep the slave cylinder where it is?

you can, but usually it requires running a really long line under the bellhousing over to the passenger side where the bump on the bell is huge and usually interferes with the passenger side exhaust/starter/ and front driveshaft.
I used the clutch master from an 86-91 chevy (with assoc pedal assembly) and found an adapter fitting at a motorcycle shop to take the threads from standard pipe to 3AN or JIC then found a braided stainless motorcycle brake line about 48" and snaked it down to the slave cylinder (dodge in my case with the cummins and dodge NV4500) the same fitting can be used depending on your slave. for the dodge version and maybe the GM there is a small nipple fitting that is held into the back of the slave with an O ring and two roll pins. I think Earls or Russel now make a conversion, bu the poor mans version is to take this roll pin fitting and silver solder a brake line fitting on the nipple, then adapt to the 3 AN/JIC braided stainless line. The bore and stroke on the GM master is very very close to the Dodge version of the slave. thus 100,000 miles and I have had no clutch problems... it does feel alittle slow on the shift.. but Im used to a manual clutch from growing up on a 65 GMC with a 3 finger borg beck tractor clutch with mechanical linkage on an OLD SM420 Muncie...... ROCK ON OLD SCHOOL

 

[acesneights1]

Yup it will work,,,, biggest thing is bellhousing and transfer case. the bell will have the issue of hydro clutch or manual... Manual will take some creation to mount a linkage. the hydro will need to be moved outside of the bellhousing with a bracket.. I suggest getting AA's bracket and cutting it up and rewelding it in a config that is more usable. The stock bell for the NV4500 puts the slave on the passenger side thus no good here. the aftermarket ones have it on the driver side (AA again) but thats about $400...... You can find one of the old SM465 bells and bore out the center hole, this has been done too.... The 4500 clutch is a fairly simple 12" GM truck clutch but make sure you have the one for diesel or the center will eventually blow out... also find the solid flywheel, (gives less trouble than the dualmass.
The other end,,,,,, the output can be touchy,,,,, You will need to find a NP205 from off a TH400. this will have the 27 or 29(cant remember) spline output with a 6 bolt round pattern. The NP208 off a later SM465 will be the same but its a lighter T case and chain drive,,,, easier shifts but weaker and not twin stick adaptable. ( I have both laying in my shop floor, 1 for the Willys, and 1 for the 65 GMC)

Note on earlier GM 4500s..... Pre 95 ran a proprietary bellhousing to trans bolt pattern that is hard to find a correct bell for.... post 95 GM and Dodge ran the same bell to trans pattern opening up the world to swapping the input shaft from dodge to GM or vice versa.
Pre 95 GM also ran the super low 6: ?? to 1 first gear (called "L" on the shifter) but the OD was the same as all other models GM or Dodge. Post 95 GM did away with the super low and went with the 5: ?? like Dodge.

Confused yet.....?????? If you need to call me,,, I have all of the above laying in the floor,,,measurements/spline counts etc
J. Stiver 307-282-0773

The stock 6.5 GMT400 6.5TD NV4500 bellhousing works fine. I have the earlier external slave on mine and it works fine and Dstang97 just did a 96+ internal with no modifications save the custom hydraulic line. If your cab is 85+ It will even have the imprints where the master goes. use 85-87 Master with whatever slave you choose(internal or external. BTW the AA bellhousing will NOT work on a 6.2 because the starter AFAIK is too long and will hit. I know the gasser bellhousings won't work with a diesel so i would assume the AA one has the same issue. There was a write up on this conversion in an old issue of 4 wheeler where the morons actually cut a triangle out of the bellhousing where the starter nose hit rather than do thier homework and just use an NV diesel GMT400 bellhousing.
Don't forget you will have to fab a valley drain tube. Read my thread on the swap. The only difference is the slave setup if you are using internal.

 

[acesneights1]

Oh, and the m1010 would have a mp208 stock and should bolt right in, as I understand it.

Yes, the 208 case although never mated to an NV from the factory, fits like it was made for it. The bolt pattern is an exact 180 mirror.

 

[dstang97]

I'm running a 1996 nv4500 bell housing, tranny and slave out of a gasser.
86+ oem master cylinder
86+ pedals
86+ np205
advanced adapter 2" spacer for the transfercase.
If I was to do it again I would have used the factory 208
Running a oem starter

 

[Ball]

I'm running a 1996 nv4500 bell housing, tranny and slave out of a gasser.
86+ oem master cylinder
86+ pedals
86+ np205
advanced adapter 2" spacer for the transfercase.
If I was to do it again I would have used the factory 208
Running a oem starter

Were there any issues using the gasser bell housing?

You're making this sound too easy

 

[Ball]

Also, this thread needs pics

 

[wcuhillbilly]

The stock 6.5 GMT400 6.5TD NV4500 bellhousing works fine. (if you can find one without going to the stealership)

I have the earlier external slave on mine and it works fine and Dstang97 just did a 96+ internal with no modifications save the custom hydraulic line. If your cab is 85+ It will even have the imprints where the master goes. use 85-87 Master with whatever slave you choose(internal or external.
True

BTW the AA bellhousing will NOT work on a 6.2 because the starter AFAIK is too long and will hit. I know the gasser bellhousings won't work with a diesel so i would assume the AA one has the same issue. There was a write up on this conversion in an old issue of 4 wheeler where the morons actually cut a triangle out of the bellhousing where the starter nose hit rather than do thier homework and just use an NV diesel GMT400 bellhousing.
I ran a gear reduction starter that didnt have a nose cone,,, fit nicely,,,, the first starter I had (6.5 starter) did contact some but we selectivly ground the inside cup of the nose hole and it was fine,,, btw this was a gasser bellhousing.....

Don't forget you will have to fab a valley drain tube.
What is this,???? turbo return drain???

Quote in yellow, my answers in gray text.
The issue of the internal throughout comes up from time to time. I ask this,,, do you want to unbolt something from the side of your bell while laying in the mud or snow. Or get towed into a shop or your yard to drop a tranny/tcase ?????

The internals have a reputation of failure thus I opted for simple... just my choice, I will see if I can get some pics posted on Thursday when I get back to my computor..... sorry,, phone posting is just not an option.'
The gasser or diesel bell are the same, just watch the bell to trans pattern if you pick up anything on Flebay. AA's bell is patterned off the old GM 12" truck bell which is what I used on my 6.2 with a Ranger torque splitter and a SM465 4spd, then I swapped the Cummins/NV4500 in. The two 4500s I have in the floor here are pre 95 GM odd balls. I will get a pic of both bell housing styles to you soon.

 

[acesneights1]

The gasser and diesel bells are different. One of my friends had a gasser bell and brought it here and we put them side by side and there was a difference where the starter went. They bolt up but the starter clearance is not the same. The diesel bell housings are not hard to find. Plenty of blown up 6.5 GmT400 trucks. I had no issue finding them. The manual transmission 6.2/5s had a tube that went from the hole on the engine valley out to a hole in the side of the block above the oil filter to drain in case the IP leaked fuel or valve covers leaked oil so it didnt go on the clutch. It is no longer available from GM. I had to make them.

 

[acesneights1]

This is the tube I made. Similar to what actually goes there.

 

[acesneights1]

here is my full thread.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?74764-NV4500-swap-a-sucess&highlight=

 

[dstang97]

Were there any issues using the gasser bell housing?

You're making this sound too easy

No mods to the bell housing. Needed to grind my starter slightly. Only hard job was the custom hydraulic line I had to fab up. My cab is a 84 so I had to use a template to cut the holes in the cab.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

Hey it worked!!!! Ok, bottom bell is the gm nv4500. The top 2 are gm 4spd bells with the rt one being the external slave 1986-91
Bottom nv is also external but in a pita location for our application. Top two bells can be put on nv4500 by reaming center hole 1/16" and drilling out existing bolt holes in bell. Then drill/tap 4500 face (its 1/2"thick) with old school pattern.





This is the 86-91 4spd bell on the 4500, similar to the AA bell that comes in the AA kit #27-0032 that is about $903.78 on their website. This kit has bell/ tcase adapter and some odds and ends. If you call them directly they can pick and choose parts for your specific applications..... IE: they have a 2" spacer for the transfer/trans adaption that is a simple and fairly affordable peice for the 4500/205 or 208 mating,(eleminates the need to trim the output shaft) but you cant find it online, only over the phone,,, the tech knows about it but the salesman will push the $700 alternative. the 85-91 slave cylinder #15615868 (this is the one that AA uses, and will fit the 86-91 4spd bell pictured above) or the use of the AA external slave bracket. ( I personally had to cut this bracket and cant it then reweld)

To do the above All 4 bolts would attach from the inside, similar to the dodge version. This is similar to AA's conversion bell and allows the fork to stay on the driver side. This isnt the only way just one of the options for scrounging junk yard parts,


all gm bells are 6 3/8 deep for the pics.
Later model pattern I couldnt get a pic of as the only one I have is bolted to the trans that Im running... Sorry didnt feel like pulling a drive line just for a pic. but the Measurements are A-across the top holes side to side = 10.078 (approx 10 1/4 +/-) B-across the bottom holes side to side= 9.738 (approx 9 3/4 +/-) and C-top to bottom of holes=6.043 (approx 6 1/4 +/-) and center hole is 5.6"



the t-case needs to be a np208C as thats 32 spline(unless shaft is swapped out) usually found on later 465 4spds or th400 autos or a np205 from a th400, as these are the sought after 32 spline outputs






Btw the valley drain tube mentioned above was discontiued because gm had a problem with the rattling loose and being munched up by the flywheel/clutch, its optional. Last virgin 6.2 and numerous 6.2/6.5 i worked on while a mechanic didnt have them. If there is that much drainage going down there, then theres a much bigger problem.