Mep002a trouble starting runs good need help

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

TWO VIDEOS ONE IT JUST SMOKES THE OTHER IT STARTS RUNS STOPS AND IS RE STARTED AND SHOWN RUNNING LIKE A TOP. I HOPE I DID THIS RIGHT.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqUTLIuuTE&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYMnvRGXcM

 

[jamawieb]

Make sure when you are starting it, to hold the start switch until the unit is going. I think after you got it started, you let off the start and that's when it died.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Yep, what jamawieb said. Hold the start all the way to right and watch the oil pressure gauge and don't let go until it builds up to ~40+ psi. Also, if it were my engine I wouldn't use any kind of starting fluid unless an emergency and then only without using any preheat. Glow plugs & intake heaters with starting fluid can cause really bad things to happen!

Also, your engine may be low hours, however if it was stored for a long time it might have a stuck piston ring which would contribute to low compression. If your going to be removing the glow plugs It might be a good idea to squirt in some Marvel Mystery oil, or similar, and letting it do an overnight soak. If you do, don't use too much and after soaking turn it over without glow plugs in to blow out any excess to prevent a potential hydro-lock.

PS: I can view the 2nd video but not the 1st, it says I need to log in.

 

[Guyfang]

Don't worry about holding the S-1 up too long. The starter lockout will prevent anything bad from happening.

 

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

in the longer video (0523) I didn't have the throttle cable pulled out. somebody replaced it and it idles very low. start the video from the 30 second mark and you will see it fire up and run strong. I do know about having oil pressure before letting go of the starter button.
I think its timing or something to do with fuel introduced into the injectors or cylinder. I am still open to ideas. thanks again

 

[Guyfang]

If you think its timing, get the -34 manual and read up on it. Then check it out. Its not hard, but you need to get smart on it first.

 

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

I read it but not having done it or see somebody else do it its confusing. When the pointer on the flywheel is lined up is that top dead center on cylinder no 1? It shows in the manual to put a 1/4" wire into the slot and turn the cam on the back of the pump till the wire drops in (like the button on a grinder to lock the shaft) at leastthats the way i see it.
So if the wire drops into the hole and the pointer is on the timming mark would that set the timming? The more i think about it the more confused i get.

 

[Guyfang]

I read it but not having done it or see somebody else do it its confusing. When the pointer on the flywheel is lined up is that top dead center on cylinder no 1?

Thats correct.

It shows in the manual to put a 1/4" wire into the slot and turn the cam on the back of the pump till the wire drops in (like the button on a grinder to lock the shaft) at least that's the way i see it.

Also correct.


So if the wire drops into the hole and the pointer is on the timing mark would that set the timing?

Correct.

The more i think about it the more confused i get.[/QUOTE]

Don't read into it. Just do it like its printed. The manual will tell you that if you put it back together and it doesn't work, You have timed it 180 degrees out of time. Simply time the engine again, pull out the Injector pump, turn it 180 degrees and put it back in.

Have looked at your movie about 20 times now. I still think you need to do a compression check. When it starts, it seems to runs well. I think that before you even think of pulling the Injector pump, you should do the compression test. You might also look at the procedure for adjusting the governor linkage. This seems to be a starting problem, not a matter of running badly. When the linkage is not adjusted properly, this gen set is hard to start.

 

[87Nassaublue]

I tend to agree with Guyfang, when it's trying to start, I get the feeling it's a compression issue on one of the cylinders. It just seems like one cylinder isn't wanting to fire when you spin it over and the other cylinder is firing well. Once it starts it sounds great. Guyfang can probably make a more authoritative comment, but I wouldn't expect it to run so well when it starts, if the problem was the injector pump timing was off.

I did notice you let off the start switch early then re-engaged it. I have a little 016B that will not start if you do that. I have to run the glow plug for 30 seconds and then start over. It will start just fine then.

I'm anxious to hear back what it takes to correct your issue.

 

[Guyfang]

A lot of the time when a set has one or more low compression cylinders, its hard if not impossible to start without ether, or some other starting aid. BUT, once it gets started, and the cylinders heat up. If it's just a worn ring problem, the rings tend to expand a bit, and it runs fine. Putting it under load in such a case tends to easily bog the set down. One way we used to do a "quick and dirty" compression test was to get an extra cap for the oil dip stick, and put a fitting on it. Then we made a homemade water manometer. For generators with compression problems, when you put them under load, and have the manometer hooked up, it shows an increase in pressure when going from no load, to half or full load. The compression gos by the rings into the oil/crankcase. We knew about what the normal manometer reading should be. So we could figure that when it significantly increased, possibly a ring/compression problem.

For the MEP-802 and 803. the normal reading on the manometer was a vacuum. I forget how many inches. But in any case, when we hook it up and the positive pressure from a WORN engine, (from down range for instance) would shoot the water out of the manometer! Without load!

Sadly, I can not for the life of me remember what the reading from an 002 or oo3 were. Should not be hard to find out.

 

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

Thanks for everything so far. I think I will read up on setting the linkage. its something that doesn't cost anything and it needs to be done, while I try and figure out what I did with the u shaped glass tube I have somewhere. I want to check compression I just don't have he 7/16-20 fitting I need. they make brake fittings in that size but none have a long enough stem to reach inside the cylinder without the nut bottoming out before getting a good thread contact

 

[87Nassaublue]

I really like Guyfang's suggestion of how to check compression indirectly by measuring crankcase pressure under different conditions. That should be a relatively easy and inexpensive quick and dirty way to get an overall impression of how tight the compression is based on how much bypass the rings have.

 

[Guyfang]

I never used a glass tube. Clear plastic hose works just fine. I mounted it on a board, drew lines across the board, every half inch, for 6-7 inches. Fill up the hose so it reads in the middle, then hook it up. Simple, and cheap.

 

[rustystud]

A lot of the time when a set has one or more low compression cylinders, its hard if not impossible to start without ether, or some other starting aid. BUT, once it gets started, and the cylinders heat up. If it's just a worn ring problem, the rings tend to expand a bit, and it runs fine. Putting it under load in such a case tends to easily bog the set down. One way we used to do a "quick and dirty" compression test was to get an extra cap for the oil dip stick, and put a fitting on it. Then we made a homemade water manometer. For generators with compression problems, when you put them under load, and have the manometer hooked up, it shows an increase in pressure when going from no load, to half or full load. The compression gos by the rings into the oil/crankcase. We knew about what the normal manometer reading should be. So we could figure that when it significantly increased, possibly a ring/compression problem.

For the MEP-802 and 803. the normal reading on the manometer was a vacuum. I forget how many inches. But in any case, when we hook it up and the positive pressure from a WORN engine, (from down range for instance) would shoot the water out of the manometer! Without load!

Sadly, I can not for the life of me remember what the reading from an 002 or oo3 were. Should not be hard to find out.

That's one of the tricks we use to test our diesel engines. Though our engines already come with quick-connects to the valve covers. In fact several engine manufactures have pressure sensors mounted there to monitor the engines performance. Along with manifold sensors (intake and exhaust) and muffler pressure sensors.

 

[87Nassaublue]

I never thought of using this method to get an indirect compression bypass test, but I did use a long piece of clear tubing for a level when I installed xray suites. I kept a piece of tubing that was about 30 feet long, fill most of it with water, and then you can use that to level any point of a ceiling to one location and have the entire ceiling perfectly level. Having the ceiling grid level was critical because lots of heavy equipment hung off the ceiling.

You can also use a piece of tubing to synchronize multiple carburetors. You put one end of the tubing in the throat of the carburetor and the other end in your ear. You adjust both for the same pitch. It works better than those expensive synchronizer gauges.

 

[rustystud]

I never thought of using this method to get an indirect compression bypass test, but I did use a long piece of clear tubing for a level when I installed xray suites. I kept a piece of tubing that was about 30 feet long, fill most of it with water, and then you can use that to level any point of a ceiling to one location and have the entire ceiling perfectly level. Having the ceiling grid level was critical because lots of heavy equipment hung off the ceiling.

You can also use a piece of tubing to synchronize multiple carburetors. You put one end of the tubing in the throat of the carburetor and the other end in your ear. You adjust both for the same pitch. It works better than those expensive synchronizer gauges.

It's funny. The ancient Egyptians built there great monuments using water as a level 5000 years ago, and it still is relevant today ! The modern diesel manufactures took a note from mechanics (like Guyfang) on indirectly testing compression by this method. This way they could adjust performance and drivability issues on the "fly" . The first thing any mechanic does nowadays is connect the laptop to the engine and see what is going on. The software for CAT and Cummins costs the transit agency a boat load of money monthly. The average user doesn't have access to this software which I feel is wrong but that is just my opinion. Of course if they did have access they could change their timing and the amount of fuel injected and so many other things all from the laptop. I guess the powers that be don't want just anyone being able to do that.

 

[Triple Jim]

I guess the powers that be don't want just anyone being able to do that.

Unfortunately, when you let just anyone mess with fueling, you get engine performance breakthroughs like "rolling coal".

 

[Guyfang]

Before we had rotating lasers in the construction branch, we simply used a garden hose and water. I watched/helped on a project once where we built a concrete mixing plant. The silos were 64 meters high. The forms were mounted on a contraption that raised the forms with a "cog railroad track on all 8 sides of the building. Very complicated. Rose a meter every 24 hours. The whole thing was controlled/monitored by several clear water hoses. A old boy just looked every once in a while at the hoses and moved the side up, (hydraulically) in accordance to the water levels. Crude but worked to a millimeter.

 

[87Nassaublue]

You're exactly right no the accuracy. The tolerances in the xray suites were also + - 1 mm. That was more much more accurate than a straight laser and much cheaper than a rotating laser, at least at that time.

There's another good use for tubing and that is to track down noises. You can use it like a stethoscope. Simply put one end of the tube in your ear and move the other around the engine to isolate where the noise is coming from. I love low tech every effective solutions!

 

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

Sorry guys i have been busy with life, and have not had a chance to test anything yet. Every time i get a free hour its 100 degrees outside and i hate the heat.