New MEP-802a, couple questions....

[Murph1219]

Hello,

Had a really good day today. Picked up an 802 I won at auction earlier in the week. I think I scored on this one. 2011 model, 10.1 hours, and all original. Still had the manuals wrapped in plastic, aux fuel hose coiled, ground rod mounted, and ground cable stowed. Both original optima yellow tops under protective covers with cable ends taped. Even had a copy of the initial aquisition service paperwork. Don't think they get much newer than this. Got it home, pulled and replaced the bad optima's, replaced good looking oil with new, screwed on a new filter, replaced a what looked like brand new fuel filter full of bright red, clean diesel with a new Napa filter. Drained what looked like brand new bright green coolant, replaced with rotella long life, primed, and purred like a kitten. Truely should have just replaced the batteries and keyed it off. Super excited. Even did the gage light mod already (thanks daybreak). Couple of questions, I drained the block and radiator, but could only get 1 gallon of coolant back in it. Should have been over 6 qts. Do you have to vent the block? Also, one missing part, the little cap on the end of the frequency adjust knob. Anyone have a parts gen and willing to part with one? Thanks for all your help, love this community, looking forward to participating now!

-Greg

 

[rhurey]

It's easier to fill coolant if you tilt it a bit...

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
Good job.

The Optima yellow tops are probably still good. They are AGM batteries. You use a special AGM charger and let them sit on the charger by themselves each for about 4 days. They will come back to life.

Coolant, there are 2 locations which you need to drain. The simple one you probably found, the tough one is the one which is really tough to get to. The drain valve is on the engine right behind the fan in the center. After getting it all out/ I found the easiest and best way is to lean the whole unit to the side (about a 10 degree lean) and fill the coolant. and it does not hurt to hit the dead crank switch to move some coolant around when you think its full. A quick 10 second burst, wait a little, fill some more, a 10 second crank, and fill some more

Either way, it is best to change all filters, and drain all fluids. Now, that you have a fresh new unit, low 10.2 hours, you should have a break in oil in it. You will need to finish breaking in the engine.

good luck.

and of course, this thread here with all kinds of good info
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?150954-MEP-8xx-series-Replacement-parts

 

[Murph1219]

Thanks Mike. I actually walked into Napa and opened your thread to list off all the filter part numbers I needed. Great help. Now I just need to find a source for the button on the end of the frequency adjust knob.

-Greg

 

[JRM]

speaking about that knob, what does the push-pull function do?

 

[Murph1219]

speaking about that knob, what does the push-pull function do?

Push-pull is Coarse speed adjustment (almost never needed). Turn knob for fine speed adjustment.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
Are you talking about the knob for the fine tuning voltage ? if so, that is part MS91528-2K2B
http://www.newark.com/ehc-electroni.../round-pointer-skirted-knob-6-35mm/dp/98B9803

http://www.alliedelec.com/electronic-hardware-corporation-ehc-ms91528-2k2b/70206852/

 

[Guyfang]

Greg,

Like Mike said, charge the Optima battery with an AGM charger. Optima's are GREAT batteries, and sometimes when you use a normal charger, and the Optima has only a few volts reading on a voltmeter, it will not take a charge. Have you started the set yet?

 

[Murph1219]

Mike, not the voltage potentiometer, the frequency adjust knob (speed control). The button on the end of the knob that you would depress to slide in and out to make coarse speed adjustment. That button is missing. Spring and shaft intact, just missing the button. Guyfang, I'be been an optima fan since I was 14 and managed to talk my father into forking over $400 to put a pair of them in his powerstroke. 8 years later he thanked me for it. I currently have a red top in my suburban, but to be honest, it'll be the last one I buy. It, like the two that came in my 802 had "made in Mexico" stickers on top, and my experience has been the later optima's aren't the equal of the earlier ones, and other manufacturers have stepped up in the AGM realm (and still make their batteries in the states to boot). So I used them for core fees and put fresh batteries in the 802. I have run the unit. Picked up with 10.1 hrs. It's got 12 on it now. Put the house on it and very happy with the results. It didn't even care about starting my central air. AC running and normal house load (couple Tv's lights, ceiling fans, computers, Internet, cable, etc. 40-50% load. Hit up the kitchen and kick on something resistive and power hungry because as far as I'm concerned the coffee pot is a critical load and you get 65-75% load. I think it's perfect size in my application. Enough base load to keep from wet stacking it, plenty of excess to start central air with normal house load, and with power management it'll run anything in the house. After an hour or so of that testing I hit it with my electric dryer to build some heat and give it a good work out. Base house load mentioned above plus the dryer just touched 95-100% load. Little light whispy grey smoke and purred like a kitten and still had plenty of authority over frequency. Backed it down, tripped it out, gave it a 5 minute cool down and shut it down. Very happy with it. Even gave it a bath before I rolled it into the garage. Even the pressure washer and rubbing alcohol didn't want to take the tape and sticker residue off, need to figure that out. Runs like the new it is, and I was pleased with its size for my home. Small enough to keep from wet stacking and keep fuel burn to a minimum, and large enough to run anything in the house with the proper power management. Thanks again for the help guys.

-Greg

 

[Guyfang]

Greg,

It should run well without the push button. If you ever get a chance to get one cheap, do so. But I would bet the cable is expensive. Just for fun, take a flashlight and look in the corners and under the main AC. Might find it. I am not sure it can be fixed, but I know someone who claimed to have done it. He was an Ordnance guy, so everything he said had to be taken with a grain of salt.

So what kind of batteries did you put in?

You sound like you are on top of this things, so I will wish you a good day!

take care,
Guy

 

[Murph1219]

Guy, no ordinance guy here. I'm an active duty Navy Machinist Mate, so I know my way around a generator. I put a couple of Walmart special standard 51R lead acid batteries in it. I didn't see the need to spend more than that $200 on something that's going to sit a lot. I'll float them once a month or so. As far as the frequency adjust it runs fine without the button, however without the button in place to hold the shaft outward against spring pressure it acts as though the button has been depressed. If you release the lock the governor will pull the cable in and put the gen at low idle, so I have to hold the knob, loosen the lock, adjust frequency, and re lock before letting go of the knob. Not a big deal at all, but the unit is so pristine I just wanted to hit all the details. Definitely not worth buying the whole assembly however. Told my father about it and now he wants me to find him one, so now I have to try and hit the lotto twice. Thanks again for your help.

-Greg

 

[Guyfang]

Greg,

I plugged the NSN into the net, and no go. Nothing no place. Try a parts wanted in SS and you might get lucky. Or maybe Green Mountain. Mostly, once its set, its good to go for a while, so its no hurry.

Well you got it covered, so take care and always glad to help.

Guy

 

[jimbo913]

So, what type of heat do you have and what type of hot water heater?

 

[Murph1219]

Jimbo, I'm natural gas here for both heat and hot water. Central air is cooling only and its label states 14.5 amp compressor, 1.5 amp fan with a minimum circuit amps of 19.1 and the all important LRA (locked rotor amps) of 77. LRA gives you some clues as to compressor start requirements. I won't get into the specifics unless you really want them. Central air is on a 30 amp breaker. Compressor start momentarily bumps load meter to 75% and it immediately falls to the 40% range to run. The 802 didn't really seem to notice or care. Most electric dryers are around 5 kW and its a good load for the 802, 90%ish. It's also on a 30 amp breaker. Most electric hot water heaters have a pair of 4.5kW elements, but in normal use only the bottom element is used. Heat rises after all. During high demand if outlet temperature falls below a certain threshold because the bottom element can't keep up, then it'll burn the top element until the demand subsides. Electric stove is actually the largest load I have, as I would imagine it is for most. Didn't look at the ratings, but it's on a 40 amp breaker. But have you ever run all the stove top elements and the oven at the same time? My guess is no, and it wouldn't be hard to avoid that situation while on the generator. In my case, the only real load management I need is to turn off the air before running a load in the dryer or using the oven. And it may even carry one element on the stove with the air still on, but haven't tried. Bottom line is an 802 will run basically everything in your average home, just not at the same time, with one exception. That exception would be if you have electric heat. Heat pump is easy, it's just central air in reverse, and the same load. However, a heat pump doesn't do much below about 45 degrees or so, so most heat pump systems have auxiliary or emergency heat. These are typically 3 or more 5kw heat strips. In this case your looking at 20kw minimum gen set needed for back up. The only good way to accomplish this is with a permanent natural gas or propane standby, as a diesel set sized to carry a resistive heat load is going to be wet stacked to **** when it's not used. But in that case you need natural gas or propane so why not just heat the house with the roughly 3 times more efficient fuel to begin with? Personally I think trying to back up electric heat with a gen is futile. Best to look at other ways to heat the home. Hope that helps.

-Greg

 

[jimbo913]

I have an 803A but thats mostly because I have dual heat pumps, and a 1hp well pump and load management is something the family won't do if I am away. My heat is a pellet stove with electric as backup. On the HW side of the equation, people should keep in mind that the new "smart" water heaters sometimes have a startup test sequence that calls for firing both heating elements, which could be up to 9500-10,000 watts (been there done that) and ended up with an 803A. Never tried it with an 802A and it might work fine if you turn on the HW before everything else?

Most of my power outages have came in winter but either way I have those small 1500/1800w heaters I can turn on to draw enough min load to avoid wet stacking. That and run it real hard prior to switching back to line power to clean it out good.

 

[Murph1219]

Sounds like a decent setup. I really like natural gas for heat/hot water. When the dryer needs replaced it'll be converted to gas as well. The 802 really is a good fit for my needs. That said, I really like the 803. All the good of the 802 plus double the cylinder count makes it a silky smooth runner that the 802 will never be. You can only do so much with an inline 2 cylinder. If I can come across an 803 in new condition like my 802, you can bet I'll jump on it.

-Greg

 

[Another Ahab]

Sounds like a decent setup. I really like natural gas for heat/hot water. When the dryer needs replaced it'll be converted to gas as well. The 802 really is a good fit for my needs. That said, I really like the 803. All the good of the 802 plus double the cylinder count makes it a silky smooth runner that the 802 will never be. You can only do so much with an inline 2 cylinder. If I can come across an 803 in new condition like my 802, you can bet I'll jump on it.

-Greg

What will a good-running 803 set a person back (+/-)?

 

[Murph1219]

From auction? Who knows, kinda the crap shoot that surplus auctions are. Basically new units can be had cheap, and junk can be sold for double what it's worth. I believe the current prices from resellers are trending in the $2k-2.5k range for the 802 and about $1k more for an 803. Highly dependent on condition/year/hours of course. I personally was more concerned with year than hours due to deterioration I believe being more of a concern than wear, but ended up scoring an essentially new unit that was recent and had no hours and had been warehoused for a couple years. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. From a reseller I would expect a unit like mine (all original 2011 with 10.1 hrs, stored indoors, good paint, still had paint marker on cast iron exhaust manifolds without a spec of rust, and all the accessories) to go for around $3500 for an 802, $4500 for an 803. But ultimately, like everything else in life, it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

-Greg

 

[jimbo913]

Greg,

I agree on the 803 being smooth running. I upgraded from a single cylinder Yanmar. Talk about shake!

i dont have natural gas near me, and I dont think I could heat with propane for the cost of pellets and the minimal power the pellet stove requires. I do have small propane backup heaters I would deploy before running electric heat in an emegency.

 

[rhurey]

What will a good-running 803 set a person back (+/-)?

Auction rate locally (on trailer) has been $1800 (cranks, no run, 70 hrs) to $3700 (Runs, 48hrs) with some stuff in the middle to make you scratch you head.