MT654CR numbers?

[lindsey97]

Let us know what you find out simp. I talked to Joe at eastern Surplus a couple weeks ago, he says there is no difference, that the torque converters are all the same between the A1 and A2 trucks. I just installed one of my 3 new ones, and it works perfectly in my A1 truck. All 3 have the same part #5704512, and the same nsn number as listed earlier in this thread. There has been much debate at my house between 98G and I as to whether the torque converters are different internally or not between A1 and A2 configuration.

 

[simp5782]

Let us know what you find out simp. I talked to Joe at eastern Surplus a couple weeks ago, he says there is no difference, that the torque converters are all the same between the A1 and A2 trucks. I just installed one of my 3 new ones, and it works perfectly in my A1 truck. All 3 have the same part #5704512, and the same nsn number as listed earlier in this thread. There has been much debate at my house between 98G and I as to whether the torque converters are different internally or not between A1 and A2 configuration.

Can you post a pic of your transmission tag ?

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[sandcobra164]

Simp, I'm also curious but don't want to hi-jack the thread with a previous discussion I have read a bit on. CSM Davis tells people not to put Dexron trans oil in these transmissions, Allison recommends the Dexron ATF. I changed mine before the GA Rally and since it was clear coming out, I went back in with 15W40 Rotella. If it had been red dyed coming out, Dexron would have went back in. I noticed no change in shifting or temps which would make sense since I basically made no change other than putting new fluid of like kind in place of old and replaced the trans filters. The old ones were actually spotless, I cut them up looking for trouble and thankfully found nothing.

 

[simp5782]

Simp, I'm also curious but don't want to hi-jack the thread with a previous discussion I have read a bit on. CSM Davis tells people not to put Dexron trans oil in these transmissions, Allison recommends the Dexron ATF. I changed mine before the GA Rally and since it was clear coming out, I went back in with 15W40 Rotella. If it had been red dyed coming out, Dexron would have went back in. I noticed no change in shifting or temps which would make sense since I basically made no change other than putting new fluid of like kind in place of old and replaced the trans filters. The old ones were actually spotless, I cut them up looking for trouble and thankfully found nothing.

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Best i can come up with from the TM section. I have always read that dex is just 10w with anti wear additives. Mine has been leaking for awhile from the torque convertor seal. I am going to a 16spd swap this winter. It is a temp fix but i want to go to the lower range torque convertor and see what happens

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[simp5782]

Ok. Well today i talked to 2 different allison dealers. As well as Dacco detroit who rebuilds torque convertors. None of then could tell me anything about the transmission or torque convertor ratio based off my serial number or the part number stamped on my torque convertor. One is dated jun 4 1984 the other is Nov 4 1987. The transmission removed from my truck has a 5.1inch deep pan. The replacement one has a 7.1inch pan. Same torque convertor numbers with an SPC stamped on the replacement one. I guess i am going to crack the old one open and try to determine what ratio it is. Dacco detroit said they could rebuild mine to whatever ratio i wanted for around 750$

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[lindsey97]

Can you post a pic of your transmission tag ?

Transmission tag is not legible. here is the MATES rebuild tag placed right above the original transmission tag.

And for the record, I did not believe the guy at eastern surplus when I was informed that there was only 1 torque converter. The military may or may not have used just one type as a compromise, but I assumed there were a couple different stall types available from Allison, for different vehicles and their prospective uses.

 

[simp5782]

View attachment 654072

Can you post a pic of your transmission tag ?

Transmission tag is not legible. here is the MATES rebuild tag placed right above the original transmission tag.

And for the record, I did not believe the guy at eastern surplus when I was informed that there was only 1 torque converter. The military may or may not have used just one type as a compromise, but I assumed there were a couple different stall types available from Allison, for different vehicles and their prospective uses.

The 24200 is your allison serial. That is a kansas readiness rebuild tag. Ill do some investigating tomorrow. I did come up with that 95 percent of garbage trucks and buses came with the 2.7 ratio.

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[lindsey97]

Simp, I'm also curious but don't want to hi-jack the thread with a previous discussion I have read a bit on. CSM Davis tells people not to put Dexron trans oil in these transmissions, Allison recommends the Dexron ATF. I changed mine before the GA Rally and since it was clear coming out, I went back in with 15W40 Rotella. If it had been red dyed coming out, Dexron would have went back in. I noticed no change in shifting or temps which would make sense since I basically made no change other than putting new fluid of like kind in place of old and replaced the trans filters. The old ones were actually spotless, I cut them up looking for trouble and thankfully found nothing.

I don't wish to turn this into an oil debate either. Allison has a pdf called "mechanic tips" for the mtb 600 series of trans. There is an oil spec chart on page 5 that shows the C4 rating approved fluids. Basically, you choose what weight fluid depending on your use of the vehicle(on road or off road) and the ambient temperature at which the vehicle operates in. On page 6, It shows the different fluids and their prospective minimum temperature limit, meaning you need to preheat your trans oil with an electric glue on heater on the pan, or run the truck 20-30 minutes in neutral at idle to warm and thin the transmission fluid.

I think what causes these transmission to fail with 15-40w motor oil in them is not letting the oil warm up and thin out before driving, especially under a load when accelerating. Since I live in a southern climate, I chose Orielly's premium (green bucket) trans hydraulic oil, part # 74209. It is a 10wt. and is Allison C4 rated. And I will let my truck warm up 20 minutes in the winter regardless of the oil used in the transmission.

I just installed a newly rebuilt MT654cr in my truck, it came with dyno test papers and a MATES rebuild tag. It had a large tag on it stating "NO OIL" , use only OE/HDO 10wt. oil. This is what they dyno tested it with so I feel pretty confident about my choice of oil.

if I were using my truck off road, driving very slow, meaning 1st-2nd gear when the torque converter stays unlocked generating more heat, with minimal air flow over the radiator, and the ambient temperature stayed over 95 degrees F (think desert) then I would use 15-40w motor oil in my transmission.

 

[simp5782]

View attachment 654072

Can you post a pic of your transmission tag ?

Transmission tag is not legible. here is the MATES rebuild tag placed right above the original transmission tag.

And for the record, I did not believe the guy at eastern surplus when I was informed that there was only 1 torque converter. The military may or may not have used just one type as a compromise, but I assumed there were a couple different stall types available from Allison, for different vehicles and their prospective uses.

Did you have a hard time trying to get your transmission to spline back in the last inch or so? I have never done one on the ground with a jack before. I know with it suspended i have to fight like heck to get it back together

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[lindsey97]

Had to tighten the bolts around the bellhousing slowly and methodically going around it doing each one a little each time. Be careful, the item they are threaded into is aluminum, and the bolts are steel.

Get 4 bolts about 3" long, cut the heads off of them, then take a zip saw and cut yourself a thin groove into the end of each one where the head was cut off. You can then thread them into the bellhousing by hand, stab the trans onto them, and they will also hold that ring/spacer up for you, then after the trans is stabbed and you have a few other bolts started remove your 4 stud pilots with a flat blade screw driver.

Call 405-207-7490 if I can help you over the phone, or I can mail you my 4 stud pilots I made.

 

[simp5782]

Had to tighten the bolts around the bellhousing slowly and methodically going around it doing each one a little each time. Be careful, the item they are threaded into is aluminum, and the bolts are steel.

Get 4 bolts about 3" long, cut the heads off of them, then take a zip saw and cut yourself a thin groove into the end of each one where the head was cut off. You can then thread them into the bellhousing by hand, stab the trans onto them, and they will also hold that ring/spacer up for you, then after the trans is stabbed and you have a few other bolts started remove your 4 stud pilots with a flat blade screw driver.

Call 405-207-7490 if I can help you over the phone, or I can mail you my 4 stud pilots I made.

Biggest issue i have alwats had is reseating the torque convertors on them since the few units i have done we have always had them apart and getting that last half inch of seat on it is brutal

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