Engine Locked? | 855 Cummins

[Zoidsfan77]

Today I removed my batteries.
They are Duracell Commercial group 31B's.
Here are my voltage readings:

As you can see, one of my batteries is very low!
I did notice there is a 12 volt tap coming off the terminal on the low battery, so that must be what is causing the drain. I do not yet know what is run off it.

So, I charged up my batteries a bit using my luxury charging technique:


After about an hour of this, I took them to Autozone to be tested. Interestingly, they both failed. (The batteries are only a few months old).
I figured if I was going to buy new batteries, I would from NAPA. So I took them to my NAPA parts house, and just for giggles, I had them test the batteries too. Even more interestingly, they both passed! Although their tester said one batter was low, "Good Battery, Recharge" it read.
So I did not buy new batteries. I grabbed a few odds and ends I needed for other projects, and departed for work.
After work today, I put both batteries on a 6 amp charger. I will let them charge overnight.

 

[doghead]

You need to charge them individually.

 

[farmerboywyotech]

Not 100% related but shortly after I purchased my m925 I managed to leave the power switch on over night. It still had enough juice to crank but would not start. I disconnected the batteries and attempted to charge them. It cranked and fired like all was good. Till the next morning same story to weak to start and the truck had ran for a couple hours the day before. I was worried I had a bad battery or the alternator had given up. I have no way to charge or jump 24v. Then I decided well if they pull 12v off the one battery surely I can put 12v back in. So I hooked my little 6 amp charger to the first battery at the ground. In about a half an hour she fired right up like a champ. I put the charger back on every night on 2 amp for about a week. It's been over 2 months not and not a bit of trouble. I'm fairly certain that it was just that the first battery was just low but still I was tickled I didn't have bigger issues.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[gimpyrobb]

Charge each battery individually for a day or two. That single 12v tap is for the glow plug(installed in the intake).

 

[Zoidsfan77]

I figured it wouldn't be a problem to parallel them up to charge them, but I will heed your words and charge them separately.

Its the glow plug eh? I see. I may have accidentally left that on (while driving) once or twice, but I don't think I have ever left it on for longer than a minute or so with the engine off.
With the batteries in series though, I can see how having it on, even while running, would cause a problem.
I am quite surprised it is not fitted with a 24 volt glowplug. Is that why the glowplug indicator lamp is so dim? Probably has a 24 volt bulb in there.

I think, after giving the batteries some time to charge up separately over the next day or two, I may try and start it. Provided it will still bar over, and coolant/oil is not suspect. (Per Wills advice).

 

[Shirehorse]

Off topic, but replace that little pinhole indicator light for the glow plugs with the larger clear, red, or amber warning light lens. No missing that.

I've drained my batteries the same way before...

~Brian

 

[gimpyrobb]

Thats funny, I thought the GP switch was a momentary that couldn't be left on. I haven't messed with a bunch of 800 series though.

 

[Shirehorse]

Thats funny, I thought the GP switch was a momentary that couldn't be left on. I haven't messed with a bunch of 800 series though.

Straight on and off, in all of her delicious accidental battery-draining goodness.

 

[Zoidsfan77]

After checking the oil level, and draining a small coolant sample, I decided to attempt to start the engine.I recorded my experience.I was not brave enough to use the manifold heater, as I really did not want to possibly put any more liquid into the cylinders. It is 31F outside, so she wasn't too keen on starting. Usually she starts up pretty easy, even at these temps without the manifold heater. She has sat for a few days though.Ultimately, I did not let her run up to temp, as I was put off by a knocking sound from the rear of the engine. Hopefully you can hear it in the video.
https://youtu.be/md2ydI1SR6M
I am glad it started up, but I still would like to investigate further. I would like to install new injectors. That gives me the chance to look into the cylinders with an endoscope and see what I find.
Oh, another thing that might be strange. My truck is a 1978, but it has the old style engine (open breather, non-top-stop injectors). Could it have been swapped in at some point, or where some built that way. Just curious.

 

[WillWagner]

Way too long to start and too much smoke. The primer is pulled out, that can cause issues. Didn't sound like it was missing but I did hear the tick/clank, could be air, maybe from the primer being out, but that almost sounds like a broken crimp on a plunger. Did it hard start and smoke white like that before you set the overhead?

 

[WillWagner]

Push the primer in, re start it, let it idle a bit and see if it smoothes out...it is puffing a bit, but that can be caused by air in the fuel or the primer left out. If it doesn't smooth out, shut it down, let it cool, re start it and feel the exhaust manifold at the exhaust ports, if you have an IR heat gun, that works good. Companion cylinder temps should be close to one another. If you see/feel temps that are way off from the companion cylinder, that is your problem hole. My guess is an injector was set wrong at 4, 5 or 6 going by the sound.

 

[BigDawg41]

Push the primer in, re start it, let it idle a bit and see if it smoothes out...it is puffing a bit, but that can be caused by air in the fuel or the primer left out. If it doesn't smooth out, shut it down, let it cool, re start it and feel the exhaust manifold at the exhaust ports, if you have an IR heat gun, that works good. Companion cylinder temps should be close to one another. If you see/feel temps that are way off from the companion cylinder, that is your problem hole. My guess is an injector was set wrong at 4, 5 or 6 going by the sound.

WillWagner,just out of curiosity,what would "temps being way off from their companion cylinder" considered to be? I have checked my truck from time to time and notice some cylinders are 20-30 degrees cooler.Is that acceptable or signs of a problem?

 

[Jbulach]

WillWagner,just out of curiosity,what would "temps being way off from their companion cylinder" considered to be? I have checked my truck from time to time and notice some cylinders are 20-30 degrees cooler.Is that acceptable or signs of a problem?

30 degrees is fine.

 

[WillWagner]

After 5-10 mins of idle, temps should be close on an engine with a good overhead set, example, 100 + or - on 1- 6, 115 on 2 - 5 and 125 on 3 - 4. If say there is a temp like cyl 2 at 125 after 5 min of idle and the companion cyl 5 has 100 and there is a mess of white smoke, 5 is most likely the issue. There are no set temps for the exhaust, it is just an indicator of an issue when/if there is a power, white smoke problem. It is just a basic troubleshooting guide. If there are cylinders that have a big difference between the companion cyls, there is an issue. White smoke means it ain't firing, black smoke means the cylinder is over fueling. Over fueling usually won't be seen until a load is applied, white smoke is usually more prevalent at idle and accompanied by a rough idle and puffing out the tail pipe. Companion cylinders mean opposite in firing order cylinder, in the case of any inline 6, 1-6, 2-5 and 3-4 are companions.

30 degrees between companion cylinders is not fine.

Edit, I should state that 30 degrees between cylinders on a Cummins, with a good overhead set, is not fine. Don't care if it is an NHC, NTC, N14, L10, ISM, M11, B or C/L series or 12 /15 liter, they all warm up the same if there re no cylinder or injector issues

 

[BigDawg41]

Thanks Will for that explanation. I always checked them right down the line 1-6 and wondered why so much variation and thought maybe a problem.I don't have a smoke problem but do have a slight rough idle/no surging. I just wanted to say that sometimes when I start my truck cold(<32),as soon as it starts sometimes it stalls due to it being very cold and does it rather violently. It will restart right away,belch some smoke and run and smooth right out. I was told thats the nature of this beast. Every so often when starting cold when going to crank I just get a loud clunk and it won't crank over until 2-4 tries then will crank fine and start.I know my batteries are good and suspect a starter issue and have to get after it. Perhaps this could be happening on Zoidfans truck since it seems to turn over freely by hand. Hope this info helps.

 

[Jbulach]

After 5-10 mins of idle, temps should be close on an engine with a good overhead set, example, 100 + or - on 1- 6, 115 on 2 - 5 and 125 on 3 - 4. If say there is a temp like cyl 2 at 125 after 5 min of idle and the companion cyl 5 has 100 and there is a mess of white smoke, 5 is most likely the issue. There are no set temps for the exhaust, it is just an indicator of an issue when/if there is a power, white smoke problem. It is just a basic troubleshooting guide. If there are cylinders that have a big difference between the companion cyls, there is an issue. White smoke means it ain't firing, black smoke means the cylinder is over fueling. Over fueling usually won't be seen until a load is applied, white smoke is usually more prevalent at idle and accompanied by a rough idle and puffing out the tail pipe. Companion cylinders mean opposite in firing order cylinder, in the case of any inline 6, 1-6, 2-5 and 3-4 are companions.

30 degrees between companion cylinders is not fine.

Edit, I should state that 30 degrees between cylinders on a Cummins, with a good overhead set, is not fine. Don't care if it is an NHC, NTC, N14, L10, ISM, M11, B or C/L series or 12 /15 liter, they all warm up the same if there re no cylinder or injector issues

I stand corrected!
Does this hold true on a hot motor as well? I'm not used to taking temps on cold motors...

 

[Monkeyboyarmy]

You mean you got that thing to start period? I don't know of any 250 Cummins that will start without using a starting fluid or manifold heater in weather below 40 degrees. They are just cold blooded beasts. Was the exhaust smoking while you were cranking it that long?

 

[Zoidsfan77]

My truck has always been (at least until recently) an easy starter. When I bought it, it had sat for two+ years. It was like 13F outside, and it startup up (while getting a jump from another truck) on the second, 30 second cranking attempt. Usually it starts up within a few seconds of hitting the starter. I have never had to use any ether on this truck.

Way too long to start and too much smoke. The primer is pulled out, that can cause issues. Didn't sound like it was missing but I did hear the tick/clank, could be air, maybe from the primer being out, but that almost sounds like a broken crimp on a plunger. Did it hard start and smoke white like that before you set the overhead?

No, it has never been hard to start, however it did always smoke quite a bit at startup.

I have an IR temp gun. Coming off an 18 hour work day, haha but I will try and go out and attempt to start it up.

 

[WillWagner]

It is hard to pick out cylinder issues using a temp gun on a hot engine just because everything is hot. Best way to do that if you have a dead miss is to mechanically short out the injector. I will not explain that because it is very easy to break a rocker box when you do that.

 

[Zoidsfan77]

Another update my friends!
The other day I went to start the truck, and much to my surprise, it started right up. Hit the starter for maybe 2 seconds.This time I had the primer lever pushed in...
I did not record startup, but here are my temp readings after a few minutes of idling.
https://youtu.be/q_QKT2n0KKs
Engine still knocks though. I ran the engine for about an hour. I did not put any load on it.
Still planning on pulling injectors and looking into cylinders.Can this be done without the special tool, or should I spend the $150 bucks?