Balancing the clutch on a deuce?

[JH1]

My manual TM9-2805-222-35 states emphatically that you must balance the clutch if you reface it or replace parts of it, or fail to mark the pressure plate position when you remove it. It further states that you are to use a "suitable balancing setup". Eh? Like, just where do you find those? I'm working on a REO gasser, but it appears to be the same clutch as the multifuels use. What do people do?

My best plan so far is to hang the clutch pressure plate and backing plate assembly on a static tire balancer and see what it looks like. The manual says to install round lead weights on the spring housing, using sheet metal screws.

It does make sense that this big, heavy spinning thing should be balanced, but I've never heard of anyone doing it. Would bad balance cause the horrific howling I hear from the clutch when I depress the pedal? If I let out the pedal, the noise goes away. The throwout bearing is smooth as glass. I'm flummoxed. Ideas?
Jim

 

[gringeltaube]

Normally, the same shops building (and balancing) drive shafts also do balance flywheels, pressure plates, cranks, etc...

Yes, every one of those heavy, fast rotating parts should be balanced - to neutral in this case!
Flywheel and PP are balanced as one assembly, bolted together and position-marked.



That noise must be something else.


G.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Have you greased the TO bearing? I've had to do that to some of them.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Most hi-performance auto parts stores that have a machine shop will balance clutches and engine parts for you. Balancing your clutch will eleminate one more source of vibration, and will prolong the life of bearing and seals. I strongly recommend the balancing of rotating parts.

 

[73m819]

As far as Balancing goes, I thought I would pass this on, it has to do with a 5t gasser not a deuce gasser but still applies,
Swiss's 1955 gasser m62 had a BAD vibration (so bad it felt like the truck wanted to jump up), we pulled the trans, pressure plate, clutch, and flywheel, indexed everything, found a tore up reverse idler and shaft, thinking this WAS the vibration, we rebuilt the trans, put everything back together, vibration came back, pulled trans. and replaced with a take out, still the vibration from HE11, pulled trans, clutch/pressure plate, installed a extra clutch/pressure plate and the trans, vibration was better but STILL there, pulled everything AGAIN and the flywheel, replaced the flywheel with a trued up flywheel from a spare motor, put everything back together, VIBARTION GONE, if you look at the old flywheel and pressure plate, there is a hot spot at the same point on both, like this spot made contract with the disk first. this was the ONLY sign of anything out of the norm.

The point of this long winded post is that,
1--Balancing of the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate IS IMPORTANT.
2--When ever you pull a trans., ALWAYS pull the clutch also, then LOOK real close for any pattern that is not the norm, clean ALL THE DIRT/CRUD, ECT., this crud WILL THOUGH THINGS OUT OF BALANCE.
3--ALWAYS index the pressure and flywheel so they go back together as they came out, this WILL help you diagnose a problem and may help in keeping things in BALANCE.

 

[gringeltaube]

The original post is almost a year old and I cannot imagine that that problem hasn't been solved yet...? It would be sooo nice if people reported back their findings... or?

Yes, to Ron's post above, points 1- and 3-. Even gov.-rebuilt engines come unbalanced and faces of PP and FW not necessarily parallel to each other! -( ... which will cause vibration and typical driveline "jumping", especially when backing up!)
To point 2- I would not remove a clutch if all was working right and smooth... LOL

To the OP: I still doubt that that issue had anything to do with an out-of-balance FW/clutch assy, since it was described as a "horrible howling" and only when the clutch pedal was depressed.


G.

 

[73m819]

As far as "horrible howling" and only when the clutch pedal was depressed., I would guess that the throw out bearing was about to come apart or freeze up.

 

[73m819]

When I did civi big truck repair, we ALWAYS pulled the pressure plate/clutch when ever a trans is pulled, the reason for this was to look at the springs, levers, disk surface for uneven wear, cracks, ect., ect,., ect., because if something does not look right, NOW is the time to change things out, rather then down the road have a truck down, maybe a tow, pulling the trans again, ect.

 

[gringeltaube]

Attention: Several posts talking specifically about the throwout-bearing and how to (eventually) grease it, have been moved to THIS other thread.

G.

 

[DavidWymore]

Anyone have access the the TM the OP mentioned?

 

[rustystud]

Anyone have access the the TM the OP mentioned?

Yes. Now I suppose you want me to find it right ? In all honesty if the clutch and pressure plate are new they shouldn't have any problems. Now if your installing a "four" finger pressure plate then it does need to be adjusted.

 

[frank8003]

Anyone have access the the TM the OP mentioned?

TM-9-2805-222-35 not found yet, - copyright?

TM-9-2815-204-35 figure 93 may be applicable [grind disk to achieve balance within <0.5 oz/in]

 

[DavidWymore]

I've had two different vehicles that I put clutch discs and pressure plate and over the years and then picked up a vibration afterwards. Recently took jeep flywheel and pressure plate to be balanced and the guy said the pressure plate was out quite a bit. My 70 vibes like crazy and the rhythm changes with rpm. My others vibrate less/different. A buddy has a 90s Toole rebuilt deuce that is so smooth and quiet you wouldn't think it's a deuce.

 

[DavidWymore]

The Toole truck has me convinced that all the noises and vibes we consider "normal" for deuces are not something we just have to live with like many seem to think.

 

[rustystud]

The Toole truck has me convinced that all the noises and vibes we consider "normal" for deuces are not something we just have to live with like many seem to think.

I agree. There are so many areas that can benefit from a little machining and balancing. These trucks where never built to be comfort vehicles. So they vibrate a little that's OK. The GI's won't care. After all their in a war right ! All that matters is that they run. That's the attitude of the manufactures and the military. The suspension torque rod bushings is one issue that can help a lot. Replace those hard old rubber bushings with something like "urethane" or better yet "spherical bearings" like "Erics" carries and the ride would greatly improve. Have all the driveshafts actually balanced ! That would make a tremendous difference ! Yes, balance the clutch assembly. Then start getting into the engine. That thing could really use some balancing ! In fact according to "Tracey Varns the tractor racer" that was one of the first mods he did on his first racing tractors. He balanced and "blue printed" the engine and added a larger turbo and made over 500HP. Not to bad for an old fifty's design engine ! Of course that is a lot of money for machining work, but if you have friends that can help ?
So add up all these things and the old clunky deuce can be turned into quite a nice off-road vehicle !

 

[cattlerepairman]

**daydreaming about driving a Deuce that makes 500 hp **

 

[frank8003]

yes, I would like to read that manual too "My manual TM9-2805-222-35 "

the moment of imbalance for Deuce engine crankshaft is allowable at half an ounce. I did read that someplace in TM's.
Harmonic balancers, 1960's style, seldom get renewed/replaced.
I suspect we will all start thinking soon as there is not any more cheap engines.
Just a caretaker here.

 

[DavidWymore]

It's the TM for the gas engine rebuild.

 

[rustystud]

David, I have the TM 9-8023-1 which is the 1957 engine rebuild manual for the OA-331 engine. If you need me to copy a certain page let me know.

 

[DavidWymore]

Id just be curious to see what it says about this clutch balancing business