Turbo and waste gate question

[llong66]

Hello all! Now that I have my truck running and driving again, thanks to help from a fellow SS member, I am going to be looking to replace my ailing GM8 turbo down the road. I have been looking for a deuce whistler unit, which seem to be either hard to find or really expensive. I did find out that Schwitzer was one of the companies that made them, and on one of every ones favorite auction site, I found a Schwitzer #3LD-208 for a John Deere tractor, that number also happens to be the replacement number for the deuce turbo. The unit is a non waste gated turbo and from what I have found so far, the put out about 8# of boost as is. Doing some looking, aftermarket waste gates are not very expensive, but they are alot more involved to install than I would have thought, actually going on BEFORE the turbo, cutting the amount of exhaust gas actually getting to the unit rather than opening and letting it flow from the exhaust chamber of the unit itself. 8# would be great, but the person selling it could not tell me anything other than its a non waste gated unit, he just sells over stock. Has anyone had any experience with these or know of a type of waste gate that simply goes on the unit right at the exhaust exit? This is all new to me as far as playing with any kind of forced induction. My motor has the lower compression pistons as well as 0.10 thicker head gaskets so I think I have a little room to play with boost numbers but I for sure don't want to over do it at all! This video, at the very begining seems to show a deuse turbo w/o a waste gate, so maybe they are ok as is? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po3lZphfiYU
Thanks much for your help and advise!

Greg

 

[Barrman]

A few things to keep in mind. The Multifuel engines got a turbo added not so much for boost, but as a way to eliminate some of the black smoke those engines put out. I think 8 pounds of boost is very generous and about double what they might actually put out. The sound and the boost do not correlate is what I am trying to write.

With your lower compression and thicker head gaskets, your engine could handle 15-20 pounds of boost if monitored and treated correctly. The stock GM turbo should get you close to that with the wastegate and fuel rate properly adjusted.

The 6.5 is an indirect injection motor. That means if it has black smoke coming out the tail pipe, exhaust gas temperatures are way too high and the heads are going to cook themselves.

I would suggest internet searches for 6.5 turbo options. You will find lots of information from people who have played the "will it fit" game on the 6.5. There are better and easier options out there than the multifuel turbo.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yeah Tim, but it whistles!

 

[llong66]

Thank you both for your replies and time. Barrman, I have done alot of searches and reading on the topic, both from other sites and actual PAPER books!! lol I would have had no idea that these motors could ever handle that type of boost! I have a boost gauge as well as a pyrometer so I feel I can keep an eye on what is going on. I don't think, even if able to handle it I would ever have need for that type of boost. About the only thing I did not do when rebuilding my 6.5l is girdle it, I even went to the expense of a steel crank. I imagine I could girdle the lower end with out removing the engine, but right now I don't think I need to. Rob pretty much hit the naul on the head, I do need a new turbo and I figure as long as I am getting one LOVE the whistle, I know thats probably silly but I know lots of ppl do love that sound.
I know I am no place close do damaging the engine because along with watching the EGT, I had turned up my pump 1/4 turn when I reinstalled it and even when I floor it I don't even get the lightest hint of black smoke I think this is probable sure to the fact my current turbo a GM8 is not up to snuff. Like I said, I know I have lots of options as far as which way to go with a new unit as well as rebuilding the one I have. No matter what I do, I am going to go with the upgraded oil return line, one of the kits with a single, steel braded hose to the return on the motor. The kits come with a new plate for the motor as well as an adapter for the turbo if needed.
One question I did have regarding your post when you mentioned the boost I could get from a stock GM unit, you mentioned my my waste gate and fuel rate properly adjusted. As far as watching EGTs, is there another way to "properly adjust" my fuel rate?
Thanks again and I hope your finally getting this wonderful spring weather too!

Greg

 

[gimpyrobb]

Honestly, have you done any searching other than "hearing" a video online? There is a LOT of guys putting turbos of all sorts over on www.dieselplace.com Maybe try looking over this link:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...-5-6-2-high-performance-engine-modifications/

 

[llong66]

Gimpy, that is one of the sites I have been doing some reading on. I have not just been listening to videos online, but have been around some older deuces and just like the sounds, however, that is not my only concern. Other options besides a replacement GM8, which ARE really quiet are of interest to me. I am thinking that unless I can find a good deal on something like I mentioned above, that a replacement GM8 is going to be the best way to go $$ wise, even an auction site one with some of their questionable longevity, I can in the meantime rebuild my factory unit and have something of known quality.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[gimpyrobb]

I figured, just razzing you.

 

[llong66]

MMmmm I LOVE Rzzazzberries!! lol, I did find that if I have my heart set on a Schwitzer #3LD-208. my best bet is one off a small ct motor, it will have a T3 flange, other wise they are T4 or T6, both of which have adapters ut beside the unit itself being more just add to the over all cost.

 

[Barrman]

I like the whistle as well.

 

[llong66]

Well, some possible good news for my turbo hunt, while at one of the bog box auto places, I was talking with one of the counter guys I have gotten to know a little bit, he is into tuners, hybrid turbos, massive boost, etc, but he grew up on a farm learning on tractors and such. He knew exactly what it is I am looking for. He said he thinks he may have a cpl of John Deere 3LD-208 turbos laying around and will let me know on Mon, said he would want no more than $50-$60 if they are genuine JD turbos! He could not remember for sure on the flange size but even if they are T6 flanges, T3 to T6 adapter plates are no biggy to find and as I mentioned farther up I had planned on upgrading my oil drain system no matter what I did, so I just have to wait till Mon. and I may have scored major!!
Wish me luck!

Greg

 

[gimpyrobb]

Sweet!

I've always said I'd rather be lucky than good.

 

[llong66]

How about lucky, then really really good with your lucky stuff?!?!

 

[patracy]

Yeah Tim, but it whistles!

There's other options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUXow3d3-b0

 

[llong66]

I remember seeing that on the News! Lol

 

[ken]

Just a thought. The "C" turbo has no heat shield between the turbine and the bearing housing. Not too big a deal with a multi fuel that isn't turned up. The Multi Is about 70 cubic inches more. With hardly any exaust back pressure. So removing the heat isn't a big deal. I sudjest some pretty long cool down times before shutting the engine off. Even though the EGT's may have some down the bearing housing loves to hold heat. This normally cooks motor oil on the bearing. The "D" turbo addressed a lot of these problems. I know it does not make the sound guys love but it is a major step up. The GM8 is a work of art next to a "C" Not to mention the GM8 turbine and compressor wheel is sized to a 6.5. Even though a "C" may bolt up it might not be the best choice.

 

[llong66]

Ken, I can't disagree with any of your points, even with the "advantages" you mention with a multi fuel and a "c", they have the dash sticker saying to allow 5 min cool down before shutting the engine off. I didn't end up getting lucky with the John Deere "C" like I thought I might so it looks like buying one or the other new. I will probably end up going with a GM8 replacement with the Leroy Diesel oil return line upgrade, which I was going to do either way. While I love the "C" like alot of ppl do, I think with the things you mention alone, the heat shielding, the GM8 being sized for a 6.5l, longevity wise alone that's going to be my best bet, and like alot of us on here, I don't have $$ to throw away just because I like the sound. Thanks much for your input!

Greg

 

[rsh4364]

Check out this video on YouTube HX35 TURBO UPGRADE-6.5 Diesel, I am considering this upgrade.

 

[llong66]

I had thought about those, I saw a vid someplace w those, you can remove a "muffler ring" on one of those and almost get a deuce "c" sound. The manual waste gate is about the same was a stock GM, the exhaust flange adapter isn't cheap though

 

[Volvo740turbo]

The muffler ring is like an anti surge, the hx35 are t3 flanged..i have one for my volvo 740 turbo. 250$ used is what I paid. I had to have one with the adjustable wastegate, Its off an older cummins 6bt
...all those had holsets..how far did you get?