FLU tires

[The FLU farm]

Sing your praise for the Michelin 12.5R20 XL here!
I will not join in on doing that, but will admit that this tire has a nice, rounded crown. Which is a good thing if you must run a radial.
Also, this tire most likely works well in sand. And...no, sorry, I can't think of any other good traits of it.

 

[alpine44]

Sing your praise for the Michelin 12.5R20 XL here!
I will not join in on doing that, but will admit that this tire has a nice, rounded crown. Which is a good thing if you must run a radial.
Also, this tire most likely works well in sand. And...no, sorry, I can't think of any other good traits of it.

Thanks FLUfarm for starting this tire thread.

The best feature of the Michelin 12.5R20 XL tires is IMO that they fit the SEE/HMMH without any worries about rubbing and that they have (barely) sufficient load rating for these vehicles.

It would be interesting and useful to have other tires listed in this thread that were actually used on an SEE/HMMH; maybe with comments about perceived pros and cons.

 

[The FLU farm]

It's kinda funny how there's been more tire talk than in recent memory on the "regular thread", and yet it took days for this one to get going. Okay, to get a second post.

Anyway, after having had the privilege to witness first hand the procedures and equipment used for tire testing at the Yuma Proving Grounds I don't, and probably never will, understand why the Michelin was chosen.
From a performance and technical standpoint that choice makes no sense whatsoever to me (but then again, many things don't). I can only speculate, but maybe politics played a role in the decision. Also, the testing may not have been as sophisticated when the FLUs were equipped. My visit at YPG was in the mid Nineties, so things might have changed in the meantime.

I'll post my replacement tire impressions later, but for now I can say that both of them put the stockers to shame when it comes to traction and road manners. Perhaps most telling is that the traction is better than with chains on the Michelins.

 

[alpine44]

After having received my first FLU419 with stock tires, I can better understand FLU farm's disdain for the 12.5R20 Michelin XL. Really not much to write home about in terms of strength or profile.

Did anyone here try the 335/80R20 Pirelli Pista PS22 or the 1100R20 GOODYEAR UNISTEEL G177 16PLY on a FLU419?

(I am trying to stay under $300 per tire for a machine that does not make money for me and sits around most of the time.)

 

[TacMac2012]

11r20's fit well. They are too narrow for factory wheels and took the tire guys LOTS of bead sealer grease to get them to inflate, I am sure you could inflate them much easier with ether, but that is illegal for tire shops to use.

 

[alpine44]

11r20's fit well. They are too narrow for factory wheels and took the tire guys LOTS of bead sealer grease to get them to inflate, I am sure you could inflate them much easier with ether, but that is illegal for tire shops to use.

Thanks for the info. I assumed that the 11.00R20 would take some coercion to seat them on the wider rim. How are they on the road and off-road, like for plowing a field?

 

[The FLU farm]

Thanks for the info. I assumed that the 11.00R20 would take some coercion to seat them on the wider rim. How are they on the road and off-road, like for plowing a field?

The main drawback with skinny tires on a wide wheel on something that goes off the pavement is when dirt gets forced in to the bead. That can be accomplished by crossing a ditch diagonally, or driving along in a crevasse, like I did.
After that you'll have a slow (if you're lucky) leak and will have to break the bead to get rid of the dirt.

On the flip side, the combination should lead to crisper handling - if that term can be used for a SEE.

 

[TacMac2012]

I have not driven a FLU with anything other than 11r20 XZL's, have not driven it very fast yet, but they seem to do fine. I bought them because they were cheap. I will actually be changing to 12.00r20 XML's soon, not sure if they will fit without rubbing but I guess I will find out. My opinion, probably stay away from 11.00's if you plan to use it plowing a field.

 

[wheelspinner]

I have not driven a FLU with anything other than 11r20 XZL's, have not driven it very fast yet, but they seem to do fine. I bought them because they were cheap. I will actually be changing to 12.00r20 XML's soon, not sure if they will fit without rubbing but I guess I will find out. My opinion, probably stay away from 11.00's if you plan to use it plowing a field.

Any pics of why they are a concern?

 

[The FLU farm]

Any pics of why they are a concern?

I may have some photo that shows the potential problem, but I'd have to dig around for it. For now, picture a modified Japanese car. Those guys really take the wide wheel/narrow tire concept to the limit. Low riders have nothing on them.
Even the 12.2R20 Michelins are really too narrow for the 20x11 wheel, leaving the rim's bead quite exposed.

Ironically, when discussing sports cars I'm the one advocating wider wheels, or if that is not an option, narrower tires. But that's for going around corners on pavement, not for performance in the dirt.

 

[gringeltaube]

.... Even the 12.2R20 Michelins are really too narrow for the 20x11 wheel, leaving the rim's bead quite exposed.
....

My opinion, as well. (I know you meant to say 12.5R20).

Obviously there is a reason for the (newer) 335/80R20 and 365/80R20 MPT81 tires from Conti for example, to have a deeply recessed bead area and even featuring a raised rib which protrudes from the rim flange outer edge.


G.

 

[The FLU farm]

My opinion, as well. (I know you meant to say 12.5R20).

Obviously there is a reason for the (newer) 335/80R20 and 365/80R20 MPT81 tires from Conti for example, to have a deeply recessed bead area and even featuring a raised rib which protrudes from the rim flange outer edge.

Sorry, I did indeed mean 12.5, not 12.2.
I have very mixed emotions about those so-called rim protectors. They do no harm when run at higher inflation pressures, but when aired down they can form a gap in front of and behind the lowest point of the tire. Basically the sidewall pivots around the rim protector.
That would not present a problem in itself, except when in loose dirt or sand. Then the bead area gets filled up, little by little, by the debris.
I have cut and sanded those rim protectors off on many tires, which eliminates the problem, but I also have tires with them still on there. The latter I have to keep airing up accordingly.
Again, it's usually not a problem at higher pressures. But when crossing ditches or driving in a crevasse (deep, V-shaped ditch in my case) dirt can get forced in there, and the rim protectors make it harder for it to come back out. I left them on the Pitbull Rockers, but that was mostly due to time constraints. Time will tell if they will be left in place or removed.

 

[alpine44]

Great info about the rim fit of various tires.

How does the 335/80R20 Pirelli Pista PS22 fit on the stock rim? Does anyone have intel on its performance?

 

[gringeltaube]

..... but when aired down they can form a gap in front of and behind the lowest point of the tire. Basically the sidewall pivots around the rim protector....

While I do understand what you're saying... this wasn't my experience, so far. But then, I have never had a reason to run my MPT's below 20 psi, not even in soft and dry, coarse grained sand, which is the worst ground, IMHO!
BTW: the lowest recommended TP for 12.5s and 14.5s is around 16psi.

I can confirm though, that just the bead section of these tires is built extremely stiff, and that all the sidewall flexing appears to happen at a "safe" distance from the tire bead itself. And MPT tires sure have a reputation for being very soft and flexible!

 

[The FLU farm]

Took a few photos today while thinking about rim and tire beads. First is a 16.50 on a 2-inch widened stock wheel, which is spec rim width for that tire. The unusually beefy bead lipon the SEE wheel still sticks out quite a bit. Jay Couch has run these on stock wheels and says it works fine. I wanted a wider stance, so the rims were widened.

Next is a 13.50 on a stock wheel. The sidewall is more vertical than the 16.50 setup above, and about what you'd normally see on a stock fitment.

Stock here.That Michelin really should be on a 9-inch rim, if going by the rule of thumb that the tread width should match the rim width. And that's for street use.

This is the tire and wheel combination where those rim protectors have given me the most grief. It's 36x14.50-15s on 10-inch rims. You can see the rim protector hugging the wheel. On the trail I run this setup at 1-6 psi, depending on terrain and speed. Yes that's low, but the Jeep only weighs 2,550 lbs.
Even though the sidewall extends way beyond the rim, dirt gets in there when the rim protectors do their little smiley face (well, two of them) at the low spot.

 

[The FLU farm]

Alpine44 made me aware that the TM says not to use bias ply tires on a FLU. Looked it up, and sure enough: "Do not use bias ply tires on vehicle. To do so could result in damage to equipment."

Okay, if it was a late model Corvette and I put bias tires on it, the handling would suffer greatly. And I could end up in the ditch, damaging the vehicle.
But surely they didn't mean that the handling (if we can even call it that) of a FLU was the reason.

In my mind, the only somewhat logical thing that comes to mind is that the increased traction of a bias ply in the dirt would put undue strain on drive train components.
But I don't buy that one, either.

What's your best guess? (That Michelin, for obvious reasons, wanted to sell more radials doesn't count as an answer).

 

[The FLU farm]

Today I used the tire groover on some tires for a little dump truck, which made me wonder if anyone has tried grooving the Michelins in an effort to get some sort of traction out of them. Not that there are any (to me) obvious cuts to be made, other than across each tread block, but still.
It's not that I'm a fan of the carcass itself, other than for the nice bias ply-like tread arch, but I figured that at least there must be some potential for improved traction. I don't think it could get any worse, no matter how they would be grooved.

 

[alpine44]

Today I used the tire groover on some tires for a little dump truck, which made me wonder if anyone has tried grooving the Michelins in an effort to get some sort of traction out of them. Not that there are any (to me) obvious cuts to be made, other than across each tread block, but still.
It's not that I'm a fan of the carcass itself, other than for the nice bias ply-like tread arch, but I figured that at least there must be some potential for improved traction. I don't think it could get any worse, no matter how they would be grooved.

When reading the word "regroovable" on these tires, I am always wondering how this could look like. I guess someone needs to try.

BTW: I have four of the original 12.5R20 Michelins for sale in the "Parts for sale" forum.

 

[The FLU farm]

When reading the word "regroovable" on these tires, I am always wondering how this could look like. I guess someone needs to try.

Regroovable would mean that the existing tread can be cut deeper. I'm thinking of creating more biting edges (but I think you knew that).
Thought more about it last night, and might try at least the rears on the HMMH. Its tires are fairly fresh, and still had the little tits on them when I got it.
What grooved tires could look like? Went nuts on a set of Mickey Thompsons years ago, and when done they resembled the Carlisle All Trail, not an MT. Many pounds of rubber left on the floor after that one.

 

[The FLU farm]

Seeing the innards of a Michelin without even trying.