Need information on SF-60-MD/CIED 60KW Diesel Generator

[stumps]

Hi,

I recently acquired a couple of VN era diesel generator sets. They are Military Design, 60KW 3-phase sets that have Cummins C180-BIG 6 cylinder engines, and Onan 60KW 3 phase generator heads. A fun part is the generator heads weigh more than the engine, and the engine is pretty, uhmm BIG?

I have searched SS, the internet, Logsa, DTIC, ... and just about anything else I can think of and found no documentation, and very little information... Or for that matter, what CIED meant back in 1968.. I did find a manual for when the set is installed in a trailer, or a 5 Ton... but that doesn't help much.

The appropriate manuals are: TM 5-6115-425-12, LO 5-6115-425-12, and TM 5-6115-425-35.

I have a 12 in paper with the sets, and a PDF of the 35 coming from the UK, I think... I would really like to find a Cummins rebuilding manual, and something similar on the injection pump.

Anybody know anything of interest about these sets? Well, other than the stuff about wetstacking, and what a big mistake I have made... What can I say? I like big engines and things that burn diesel and roar...

And to head off the picture thing, here is a few pictures of someone else's SF-60-MD/CIED.. Gratuitously stolen, I hope they don't mind.


-Chuck

 

[stumps]

Wow! The SF-60-MD/CEIP must really be a rare beast to have, err... a... stumped you guys!

Just as a point of interest, from what I can gather it is two things: one, the precursor to the MEP-006, and two, the precise model, as it has the electronic/hydraulic frequency control.. so, I guess it is really the precursor to the MEP-105.

What does the CIED part of its nomenclature mean? I'm sure it isn't Counter Improvised Explosive Device. Judging by the manual for the PU-499, it has to have something to do with radio communications... but what I cannot tell.

-Chuck

 

[1800 Diesel]

Can't help you on the CIED nomenclature.

Have you done the basic fuel system cleaning/purging, new oil & filters, etc PM? Since you're asking about a rebuild manual, just wondering if the engine is locked up or something? Is the IP not working? Have you attempted a light-off on either unit?

Kevin

 

[stumps]

Can't help you on the CIED nomenclature.

Have you done the basic fuel system cleaning/purging, new oil & filters, etc PM? Since you're asking about a rebuild manual, just wondering if the engine is locked up or something? Is the IP not working? Have you attempted a light-off on either unit?

Kevin

HI Kevin,

As yet, I have inspected the units at the seller's, and determined that I will need to pull the heads and do some clean up. One is locked, and one has some flash rust in the bore. Someone was in the process of removing the injection pump on one unit, so there is likely a problem there.

I don't foresee any show stopper issues, but, I am expecting to have to do some work... What can I say? The price was right.

And, as I always like to over think everything I do, I need all the appropriate documentation.

I don't even know the displacement on the engine at this point. Cummins C180 seems to cover a range of engines with a range of displacements and numbers of cylinders.... all producing 180HP.

-Chuck

 

[1800 Diesel]

Chuck,

Sounds like you've got yourself a good project there--actually a couple of projects.... I'm the same way about documentation also. If I run across any TM info I'll send a note.

BTW, hope you have a good forklift at the home base...that's one item I need here but don't have. For the larger units I have to unload or load, I'm am continuing to refresh my rigging & chainfall skills....

Kevin

 

[stumps]

Chuck,

Sounds like you've got yourself a good project there--actually a couple of projects.... I'm the same way about documentation also. If I run across any TM info I'll send a note.

BTW, hope you have a good forklift at the home base...that's one item I need here but don't have. For the larger units I have to unload or load, I'm am continuing to refresh my rigging & chainfall skills....
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

There is a 15000 lb lift at the seller's location, so it will only be just miserable getting it on my trailer... And I have a lift that can just handle it for moving it around my shop... as long as I don't try to lift it very high and drive around the farm, it should be fine. This set weighs in at 4710lbs dry... about 300lbs more than the MEP-006A.

I'll replace the stand in pictures with real pictures of my generator sets when I get a chance to take them. My sets are gray, rather than green.

-Chuck

 

[stumps]

Learning more and more about the ST-60-MD/CIED... and it isn't even here yet!

The Cummins C180-BIG engine is kind of huge: 464 cuin (7.6L) in line 6 cylinder, 24 valve, supercharged, with PT (Pressure-Time) injectors.

For those that aren't familiar, PT injectors are driven by the engine cam, and are little pump units located above the injector nozzle for each cylinder. The injectors are common rail, meaning that they are all connected to a common fuel supply line, and they all connect to a common fuel dump line.

PT injectors have 3 basic cam positions. Most of the time, the cam forces the injector's piston all the way in, so that it plugs the injector's opening into the combustion chamber. Just before it is time to inject, the cam drops fully down to allow the diesel oil to flow through a tiny orifice into a cup below the injector's piston.....they are called a PT injector because the amount of charge entering the cup is directly controlled by the main rail pressure, and by how long the cam stays in the filling position.... When it is time to fire the cylinder, the cam quickly rises back to the fully shut position. While it is rising, it squeezes its fuel charge into the cylinder, and then plugs the injector shut. This plugging action is done to prevent combustion gases from flowing back into the injector and fouling it with carbon.

The injection pump is simply a throttle actuated, variable pressure, gear pump. The pressure from the pump varies from about 50psi when in the idle position, to about 147psi at full throttle.
It incorporates a flyball governor that limits the pressure when you get above the maximum engine speed.

The engine is called a C180 because produces 180HP at 2500 RPM... which is kind of big for a 60KW generator. The 60KW MEP-006a's Allis-Chalmers 6 cylinder engine produces 120HP at 1800 RPM, 130HP at 2000RPM, and by extrapolating, about 150HP at 2500RPM... If the manuals are to be believed, the SF-60-MD/CIED doesn't derate for 50Hz, like the but the MEP derates to 50KW at 50Hz. However, the meters on the control panel show a line at 50KW for 50Hz.... This could be because the SF-60-MD/CIED shares its front panel parts with the MEP-006A and MEP-105A...

SF-60-MD/CIED's speed (frequency) control is done by an electrically activated hydraulic throttle control, just like the PRECISE forms of the MEP-006A (MEP-105).

The SF-60-MD/CIED's generator head is made by ONAN, and has a pair of brushes and slip rings to control/feed the field. .. Whereas the MEP-006A has a brushless generator head... There shouldn't be much difference in terms of reliability, as the brushes are only handling the very limited field current... though their presence came as a surprise to me.

The fuel tank is 60 gallons, and the generator is rated to burn 57 gallons over an 8 hour period at full 60KW production. Because of the engine efficiencies, and the accessory loads, fuel consumption will not be linear. You cannot expect the generator to burn only 2 gallons per hour at 1/4 power, 15KW. The first place to go to reduce idle fuel consumption would be to change the engine's fan to an electric fan.

I can't wait to make smoke!

-Chuck

 

[stumps]

Well, the beasts are here! And they are heavy in a very big way!

Doing a quick inventory on the parts, between the two units, I have just enough parts to make one a runner... assuming I get lucky and there are no catastrophic failed parts in the lot. What are the odds?

To make a pair, I am missing:

1- fuel gage
1- temperature gage
1- battery ampmeter
1- AC frequency meter
1- AC frequency setting rheostat
1- Electric Governor Control unit (same as MEP-105A)
1- Exhaust flapper (to keep the water out)
4- 24V fuel transfer pumps.

And the entire fuel filler assembly, cap, filter, flange, and rubber hose.
And the battery cables..

So, I will concentrate on making one work, and I will be on the prowl for the missing parts to make the second unit work later.

I will take some real pictures to replace the borrowed pictures after I get them both under roof.

-Chuck

 

[maginvestmentgrp]

HELP,


i purchased the exact same generator sf-60-md/cied, c-180-big engine assuming it would be easy to find parts for it and boy was i wrong, anyway if theres anyone on here that can help me purchase a new head gasket or the seals will do just fine also i would greatly appreciate the healp.

-Marc

 

[stumps]

Hi Marc,

I can't help much, as my project got stalled when I had to go on to other things. These engines are still used in old garbage trucks, dump trucks, and things like that. I would think that you could find gaskets, and other such parts at your local Cummins shop.

When I left the project I was ready to crank it over and start it up, but stalled when I decided I had better get a good sized CO2 fire extinguisher, in case I needed to stop a run-away. I figured that a plastic bag tossed over the air cleaner would just get the bag and air cleaner sucked into the roots blower supercharger...

-Chuck

 

[DieselAddict]

When I left the project I was ready to crank it over and start it up, but stalled when I decided I had better get a good sized CO2 fire extinguisher, in case I needed to stop a run-away. I figured that a plastic bag tossed over the air cleaner would just get the bag and air cleaner sucked into the roots blower supercharger...

-Chuck

Excellent advice to anyone starting one of these or any other large diesel engine. Have a CO2 extinguisher on hand to kill a runaway.

 

[Guyfang]

Take the air filter off when starting. I kept a clip board handy for stoping runaways. Works every time.

Please take ale a picture of the data plate for me.

you are screwed for the electro/hyd gov. System, but can change it to a utility set.

One bit bit of luck is that lots OSS parts are the same as the MEP-004 to MEP-006 gen sets. Filters, alternator, speed switch and lots more will be interchangeable. It's a good gen set.

 

[Poccur]

I second the handy-dandy clipboard...ideal..

 

[Guyfang]

I will fess up here. The statute of limitations has run out on this story. In 1974-75, my boss and I and I traded some cheap sippin licker and several cartons of cigarettes for just such a gen set. We were having much problems with our gen sets on the missle site. We were looking for something that did not have 10,000 hours on it, like our sets. So off we went to K-town and did this dope deal. We brought it home, cleaned it up, did a service, and put it on line. For the next half year, it ran pretty much the whole time. It gave us the breathing room to do some real repairs on our junk. This was a real fine gen set! But all good things come to an end. The army frowns on "excess". So we took the old girl down to a parking lot behind the PX, and left her there.

Now to the reason for writing this story. The electro/hydronic system will be a big problem. And while it might work for a while, it was the great weak link on this gen set. Since the set came in two different models, utility and precise, changing this thing to a utility should not be hard.

The hyd actuators were a problem. The governor was also problematic. The governor is in a paraffin filled box, to keep it a little safer from vibrations. The good news is that the repair information is in the -35 manual. A good hyd repair shop should be able to repair it. The repair procedures for the gov are also in the -35, but we never had much luck with it.

The he brushes need to be checked. Easy to change. We had twice problems with the speed switch. And yes, we did have a runaway. Sadly, the first thing my boss could find to try and starve it for air, was my T-shirt . It didn't work out well at all. Hench, the clip board.

 

[stumps]

I knew that sooner or later someone would show up that knew about these VN era gen sets. So, here's my stupid question: What does CIED in the SF60-MD-CIED Nomenclature stand for? I know that SF stands for Standard Frequency, MD stands for Motor, Diesel, and I guessed that CIED might be Compression Ignition Engine Diesel, but that seems excessively redundant. Any ideas?

Also, it looks to me, from studying the -10, like there was only the hydraulic control for this model. Later MEP 60KW had either the hydraulic speed control, or the utility speed control.

And, it looks to me like the MEP 60KW used the same paraffin filled electrical box, and hydraulic control elements, or very similar. Without the parts manual, I'm not sure.

Any ideas where one can find all of the manuals? I have the -10, and a lousy copy of the -35, but there are a lot more.

And, my reason for not wanting to leave the filter off, and use a clipboard, or other chunk of wood, is there is too much hardware up above the air inlet. These things suck a tremendous volume of air, and the radiator's fan blows a tremendous volume of air, I would hate for it to suck up a nut, or lockwasher that fell off of the service doors, or some such. It seems safer to just give it a snort of CO2.

-Chuck

 

[Guyfang]

I knew that sooner or later someone would show up that knew about these VN era gen sets. So, here's my stupid question: What does CIED in the SF60-MD-CIED Nomenclature stand for? I know that SF stands for Standard Frequency, MD stands for Motor, Diesel, and I guessed that CIED might be Compression Ignition Engine Diesel, but that seems excessively redundant. Any ideas?

As far as I can remember, and its been a while, what we learned at the school house in Ft. Belvoir was that CIED stood for Compression Ignition Engine Diesel.

Also, it looks to me, from studying the -10, like there was only the hydraulic control for this model. Later MEP 60KW had either the hydraulic speed control, or the utility speed control.

Once again, I have to refer to the school house, and this was in May, 1973, we learned/worked on a 30 KW gen set that was very much like the SF60-MD-CIED. Cant remember what it was called. And it was a utility model. The set we borrowed was the SF60-MD-CIED.

And, it looks to me like the MEP 60KW used the same paraffin filled electrical box, and hydraulic control elements, or very similar. Without the parts manual, I'm not sure.
The components were very similar, if not identical. I am looking in some dark corners for manuals. The hyd actuators were a colossal PITA. You needed a Hyd test stand to run/adjust/repair them. Few people had the nerve or concentration to fix them right. Every Direct Support unit in our 69th ADA Brigade, had a Engineer Shop Set #4, with a test stand in it. Most Engineer sections tossed the test stand out into a corner and never looked at them again. It was simpler to order a new one. The old one went "someplace" to be fixed. Maybe KAD, (Kaiserslautern Army Depot), but where ever it was, QA/QC was not their middle name.
Any ideas where one can find all of the manuals? I have the -10, and a lousy copy of the -35, but there are a lot more.

What do you think about scanning those two manuals and putting them into the TM library?
And, my reason for not wanting to leave the filter off, and use a clipboard, or other chunk of wood, is there is too much hardware up above the air inlet. These things suck a tremendous volume of air, and the radiator's fan blows a tremendous volume of air, I would hate for it to suck up a nut, or lock washer that fell off of the service doors, or some such. It seems safer to just give it a snort of CO2.
-Chuck

-

 

[stumps]

Thanks for the info!

... Redundant naming? What was I thinking, of course it would be

I would be happy to include the manuals that I have in the archives, but they are pretty bad. The -12 was the copy I found in one of the generator sets, and it has been in the weather. As a result, I had to scan it in a mode that traded lots of levels of gray for size, and it came out to be 70MB. My copy of the -35 is about twice that size. If any one wants them, I will put them up... If I can figure out how.

-Chuck

 

[Guyfang]

Well why not! If we can put them into the manual forum, who knows, someone might need them. Every source I tried came up empty. I still have two hooks out, but it looks like I won't get a bite.