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M37 light switch question

Lenny

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My truck has been sitting for awhile outside. I just replaced the fuel pump and got it going but I have no lights on anything. In looking at the schematic of the truck it seems like 24 volts is fed into the light switch from somewhere, (I can't tell where) but it appears to go in on terminal F. So then there must be a bunch of multipole switches in there, some of which activate together?

The frustrating thing is like most every automotive circuit diagram I've ever had the misfortune to look at it never shows the internal workings of the device. In this case a detailed schematic of the switch would really tweak my antenna and it would really help me to solve this problem. Instead of merely having a mystery box with ten lines drawn into it I thought that the military would get a bit more detailed with this stuff.

Does anyone know if anything like this exists, or perhaps does someone know the internals of the switch who could help me with troubleshooting this problem? Thanks very much. Lenny
 

NDT

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The way the switch works is that depending on what the setting is, the switch directs power to that circuit. Those switches are not usually repairable. There is also a circuit breaker built in to the switch. If you are certain that power is being fed to the switch and no power is coming out, say for instance, no headlight power at the dimmer switch when set to service drive, the switch is bad.
 

cjcottrill

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In my experience the contacts inside the switch are known to corrode. If you look closely, you should see a snap ring that locks the two halves together. You can remove the 3 levers then remove the lock ring, separate the halves and clean everything up. I usually apply dielectric grease to the contacts and then reassemble it. It should last a long time after that. I have had good success buying spares from the $5.00 junk boxes at swap meets, cleaning them up and using them. Good Luck.


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gringeltaube

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.............. it never shows the internal workings of the device. In this case a detailed schematic of the switch would really tweak my antenna and it would really help me to solve this problem. Instead of merely having a mystery box with ten lines drawn into it I thought that the military would get a bit more detailed with this stuff.
Does anyone know if anything like this exists, or perhaps does someone know the internals of the switch who could help me with troubleshooting this problem? Thanks very much. Lenny
Here you go... (attached internal diagram)

Many years ago someone... found himself in your same situation...:wink:



Also attached, a very nice, step-by-step write-up I have on file, about how to rebuild your light switch.
(Courtesy of Randy (?); not sure if he is a member and if this had been posted here, before).



G.
 

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Lenny

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I was away for the weekend and I found the switch schematic and rebuild procedure this morning. This is going to be invaluable to me in troubleshooting the problem. Thank you so much. Lenny
 

maccus

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Trivia note..........The very first light switches did not have the circuit breaker inside the switch housing. They used a 15 amp klaxon breaker like everything else does. Most of the old vehicles that had an amp gauge instead of a volt meter used that type of switch as a general rule. So if you have the old switch you might want to make sure your klaxon breaker is functioning. My 1951 REO M34 had that type of switch/amp meter setup.
 

Lenny

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The truck is a 1953. The gauge has the three colored bands, red yellow and green. I think that must be the voltmeter type, Is that correct?

What is interesting here is that just like the switch shown in the PDF that was sent to me, my switch also jammed because the metal spring in mine broke too. I too had to take mine apart to remove the metal spring as well. I cleaned the contacts and lubricated it with NoOX before reassembling it. Funny that I didn't notice a circuit breaker when I was in there but I probably wasn't looking for one either. That was a few years ago and since then I have had no problems until now.

Just today, to get a better look I removed the four bolts holding the small plate under the steering column.I can see the wires going into the back of the light switch. They appear to have been copper covered by a sort of cloth with a rubber outer covering. Some of the wires are in very bad condition, with some of the rubber gone. I don't even want to touch this with the battery connected. I can see where one of the wires that go into the central area of the switch is broken. I'm thinking that for everything to be dead this must be the feed going into terminal F. I can't confirm this though because I can't read the makings on the cables nor can I see the back of the switch. I'm going to look into this further tomorrow. If this is simply a broken 24 volt feed to the switch I'll try to reconnect it. If this is not possible though instead of replacing the entire harness is it possible to just obtain a light switch connector with say 12 inch wires on it ? I can then cut the old connector off the truck harness and splice this replacement "tail" on to it. Lenny
 

maccus

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The truck is a 1953. The gauge has the three colored bands, red yellow and green. I think that must be the voltmeter type, Is that correct?

Yes that is a voltmeter.

Just today, to get a better look I removed the four bolts holding the small plate under the steering column.I can see the wires going into the back of the light switch. They appear to have been copper covered by a sort of cloth with a rubber outer covering. Some of the wires are in very bad condition, with some of the rubber gone. I don't even want to touch this with the battery connected. I can see where one of the wires that go into the central area of the switch is broken. I'm thinking that for everything to be dead this must be the feed going into terminal F. I can't confirm this though because I can't read the makings on the cables nor can I see the back of the switch. I'm going to look into this further tomorrow. If this is simply a broken 24 volt feed to the switch I'll try to reconnect it. If this is not possible though instead of replacing the entire harness is it possible to just obtain a light switch connector with say 12 inch wires on it ? I can then cut the old connector off the truck harness and splice this replacement "tail" on to it. Lenny
If your wiring looks as you have described. You can bet that you have bare wires in many places. Time to bite the bullet and replace the whole harness. Very common problem with the early 50s' units. If you address only the light switch wiring now sooner or later you will have problems elsewhere. Replacing a harness on a smaller truck is not a big deal.

I am in the process of collecting the required parts to replace all wiring and connectors/breakers etc. on a 52 M37. Not very hard to buy 500ft of wire and build your own harness. I am switching over to Packard connectors as the old style Douglas connectors are hard to use pain in the butt nasty connector. If you are a purist and concerned about changing over to Packard remember that if the truck had gone to an overhaul shop it more than likely would have the Douglas stuff changed to Packard anyway.

A real problem that is easily missed by just a casual look and see is that if the wire is bare right at the exit from the Douglas connector (which is a metal can) and the connector is in the holder clips on the inner fender it can short to ground. Often happens. Causing the breaker for the lights to not work sometimes or at all.
 
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gringeltaube

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If your wiring looks as you have described. You can bet that you have bare wires in many places. Time to bite the bullet and replace the whole harness. Very common problem with the early 50s' units. If you address only the light switch wiring now sooner or later you will have problems elsewhere. Replacing a harness on a smaller truck is not a big deal...
Agree 100%!

I have had to replace every inch of wiring, on more than one of these old-timers. Even done it using Douglas connectors - brand new out of the box, that is.
Besides great peace of mind - making your own harness gives you the possibility to add more "modern" functions like blinker switch; back-up lights; replace the old generator/regulator with an alternator; eventually even add an integrated 12V-system.
 

mdainsd

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I rewired my M37 stem to stern. I made every one of the 12 harnesses from scratch. I got the correct wire (new and pliable), all new douglas connectors, the correct no stick wrapping tape. A machinist friend built a little punch and punched me out a couple hundred aluminum tags.

Then I started in. I had all the douglas shells and adapter rings tumbled to debut them, then off to plating. Next was getting them clear coated. All terminal are crimped and soldered. That required drilling weep holes in lots and lots of contacts.

They are all done. A little trick I use. I cut clear vinyl rectangles about 1 1/4" X 1" out of thick pliable material. I hold it around a mated connector and press it into the holder. They don't show, once installed, but they stop some of the corrosion from dis-similar metal contact. Bonus: if the wired ever shorts to the connector shells it is still isolated from ground.

Tip: if you are converting to packard. The ends that you want the bigger packard connector on, you don't even need to change the contact. Pull the grommet and reducer of the douglass back. Pull or cut off the rubber part. throw away if you like the shell and reducer. Lube up the contact and shove it through the packard rubber, ad the little c washer and put it back into the rubber. Both use the same contact. You are back to changing the contact for the female side.
 

Lenny

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I worked on the truck again today and although I can't read the number on the wire tag on the broken wire it must be the wire that feeds power to the switch, terminal F. Connecting it together with a crimp connector restored the lighting system. As I had mentioned previously it is an electrical fire that just hasn't started yet. So I put a band aid on it but I agree that at the very least that part of the harness has to go.

The guy that I got this truck from in 1983 was a real hack. He never should have been allowed to be anywhere near anything electrical. Some of the stuff he did was a nightmare. I replaced a lot of wiring on this truck back then so I don't want to do a "stem to stern" retrofit, nor does it need to have that done now. However for the time being if at all possible I would like to replace the harness section that just goes to the light switch and what ever else it goes to. Is there any information available that describes what these different harnesses look like and go to and what this would entail?

The other thing is if you're making a harness from scratch where do you get for instance the special connectors including the 12 in one for the light switch? And would that one come with wires attached to it or would you need to install them?And what about lengths? Is there any information on that? I'm sure that I am certainly capable of building a harness. I would just really like to get a better idea of what I'm facing before I start. Thanks, Lenny
 

mdainsd

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The one with the light switch is called both the front harness or cab harness, its the most complex of the lot.

The twelve pin connectors are a mil/aero standard. You can find them on eBay. A new one comes less wires. You solder the wire on, slide the compression grommet all the way on and tighten up the compression nut.

The "packard or GE wire is available too. M-37s use 14AWG throughout.

Here are the front turn signals, I just restored, the small harnesses are visible, kind of. The quality plating and clear coating will keep these looking like this for years. I find it rewarding, but its probably a little to OCD...

IMAG0390.jpg
 

maccus

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You can buy the light switch here..............http://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/elcocplfor3l.html.......... If you look at the connector a while you can figure out how to remove the pins. Use WD 40 and it will be easy. Take your old connector apart and you will see. So I normally pop them out, solder them and reinsert. A lot easier that way and no melted connector parts. You can fabricate a simple pin removal tool. With the soldered pigtail wires on the connector it is a snap to crimp the wires to the harness.

Take one of the unused pins and use it to connect to your flasher. Pushing it of course into the correct location on the connector. Don't remember but pin "J" comes to mind as the flasher pin.
 
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mdainsd

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Pin J is one of the two from the light switch that goes to the turn signal control. There is no wire on this pin on trucks not fitted or retro-fitted with turn signals.

Pin J is hot when the light switch is in "service brake" or "service drive" (headlights) positions - This is what powers the turn signals. It connects to pin G of the turn signal controller.

But we also need the Brake light signal going to the turn signal control. This comes from light switch Pin D. On trucks not fitted or retro-fitted with turn signals, this wire ran directly to the right front fender inner panel where it connected with the chassis harness and from there to a splitter that went to the LH tail light and the trailer connector (Wire #22).

Pin D is hot when the light switch is in the "service brake" or "service drive" (headlights) positions AND the brake pedal is depressed. It connects to pin D of the turn signal controller.

EDIT: The stuff I posted is for trucks equipped with the modern turn signal switch and the solid state flasher. If your truck has the clunky mechanical flasher box, I can help you with those connections too if you need it.
 
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Lenny

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I want to investigate what is involved in building replacement harnesses for my truck. I have no turn signals on it or anything extra. So I would need a layout which shows a schematic, lengths, connectors, etc. Does anyone have that sort of information? Thanks, Lenny
 

mdainsd

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schematics are around online. However, I for one have never seen one that is correct in all aspects. The only people with lengths and that kind of information are the people who build repop harnesses (I would think).

Is there enough of the old harness(es) to get measurement off of?

Then write down what you want to change, like adding turn signals.

I use a piece of weed whip string. Get a length for each run from that using a sharpie to mark the string. use a tape measure to get real numbers off of the weed whip string. The weed whip string works so well because it doesn't pull tight but has a bend that is just like the wire.

Note: I worked for a company that did many, many cables for the (now cancelled) Marine Corp Expeditionary Fighting vehicle. This is how we got the most accurate measurements to make the cable assemblies for that program. General Dynamics had the best modeling software available, but it never figured cable lengths right, there was always some change that affected basically everything. They laughed the first time they saw me do this the first time. The first time they saw finished cables, they increased the scope of our work for more and more.

You don't have to do this step, but I grab a piece of 4X8 plywood out of my shop and start laying the harness out on it with nails at each breakout, end etc using the measurements gotten from above. Grab your roll of #14 wire and start laying in the runs. Leave extra wire at each destination (6 inches or so). I start at the light switch. The most critical breakouts, position wise are the the ones right near the light switch: the ignition switch wire, the wires to the instrument panel (leave these longer than original, you will thank yourself), and the circuit breakers. Then you are at the "T" where the harness splits and goes left and right. That "T" wants to be right up against the firewall. Im sure you can figure this out. LABEL BOTH ENDS OF EACH WIRE AS YOU APPLY IT TO THE BOARD.

It is a bit tedious, but the results are worth it. When you get the wires done you can either finish wrap them with non adhesive tape or just temp wrap them with sticky electrical tape every 12-18". Then fit check the whole thing into the vehicle. If it is your first try I recommend the temp wrap. 8) Then its time to put each wire exactly where it goes and cut the excess off. Remember your service loops. A rule of thumb for harnessing is that there is enough extra length on each wire for two re-terminations. Its not much, 1/2-3/4" extra.

Add connectors, and markers if you have them, and do the final wrap. I start at the farthest away with one roll. As I get near a junction I use a second roll to wrap that leg from the far end, then over the joined bundle for a few inches and cut that new tape. Then continue wrapping the first over all that and continue adding junctions you come to them. When you are done that first tape should be continuos from the farthest point all the way to the light switch. That is the only place a few turns of adhesive tape are used.

I've done lots and lots of vehicles this way. I even used to offer the service. But all the harnesses on an M37 take 100 hours or more to do RIGHT! You can quickly appreciate why the repops are so expensive, they are labor intensive. I'm particular though. I have yet to see a repop I would use on one my projects. But then again an original isn't perfect either. The ones I spend my time on are suitable for a Concour de"Arrogance, LOL.

Give it a try! Its just time and money, but less money than a repop. New original connectors don't come cheap, unfortunately. You can use old ones (but not rusty ones) as I described above. But you still have to hunt down the rubber boots. DO NOT USE OLD ONES. Skip the polishing of the shells before plating and the clear coating after plating, thats for some silly old man (like me).

Good Luck!
 
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cjcottrill

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I bought boots and connectors from Vintage Wiring of Maine. I think they gave me a good price for the parts. They also sell the old style wire if that is what you want. I picked up the correct crimping tool at a local flea market for 8 bucks. I pulled the bed but left everything else on the frame. I used the schematic for the B1 because it has turn signals. I pushed the pins out of the multi-wire connectors and used a propane torch to de-solder everything. Soldered new wire in and reset them into the connectors. I put the wires in wire-loom instead of wrapping them. I did wrap the short branch runs. Good luck and enjoy the project.


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maccus

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Anyone reading the two posts before this one by cjcottrill and mdainsd should be able to make a very well done wiring harness. I have for many years used just about all of their methods to fabricate many, many harnesses. Good show guys. For me the 4x8 plywood sheet is a very important part of the fabrication. For 6x6s and longer then 8 foot harnesses I just tie down the wiring to the nails used to fan out the harness and then turn it over on the saw horses and run the rest of the longer harnesses.
 
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Hpwr

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Just a short note / reply to this topic; which I've just found, having worked in the electronics / RF fields for 40 years I would not use a conducting anti corrosive grease like NoOxId inside these switches, it conducts, one should use a Die Electric, or non conducting grease. NoOxId may make one, but I was not able to identify one on their site. Auto parts stores have many different brands of Die electric grease.

Steve
Hpwr
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M1010
 
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