CTMGSA-5 5 kw diesel generator trailer mounted

[CUCV_ut]

Hello

I just picked up a neat trailer with generator. Originally it came with two 5kw generators wired to a switch box. Apparently the DOD needed more generators in the 90s so they came up with these commercial trailer mounted generator set to supplement the MEP series. The trailer is really neat and uses the same wheels as a CUCV which is why I wanted the trailer. Originally they had a nice hydraulic surge brake like the M-101a2 trailers, but someone took that off and welded the pintle right to the front of the trailer. That made it easy to tow behind my truck, but I think I'll search for the hydraulic actuator and put it back. The parking brake cables look rusted and don't seem to move. I took some pictures with the measurements for anyone looking at one of these trailers. It appears to have a military trailer plug as well as a 7 pin round trailer plug so it might work on civilian and military trucks. One reason I got the trailer was to have something cheap to put the S-250 shelter on if the generator wasn't salvageable (looks like it could be a runner if I can find the schematics).



The generator itself uses a single cylinder deutz diesel engine. It looks like this one has a few things that need repair before I can try and fire it up. When I open the control panel I see several disconnected wires. Anyone have an idea what they hook to?

Next question, is this fuse holder for the convenience outlet original?

The control panel itself seems to have a wire off near the start switch.

In the rear access door there is a wire hanging with a part on it, almost looks like half a diode?

There is a cut wire under the trailer, it comes out the bottom of the generator by the power cable and looks like it goes to the fuel tank. The wire is red with a shield and two conductors. Is that to a sensor of some kind in the tank?

There is an access port in the back for the air filter, but is there supposed to be some kind of a cap on this or does it just suck air in the back around the filter?

I'm hoping there are others who have found these unusual generators that might be able to help me figure out what the unhooked wires and some of these other issues are. I've looked all over and cannot find the manuals anywhere which will make troubleshooting the wiring very difficult.

 

[justacitizen]

http://go-armynavy.com/military-sur...rator-set-assembly-model-ctmgsa-5-manual.html

here ya go
http://www.stewartandstevenson.com/markets/mining/generators

 

[Guyfang]

One of the reasons its hard to get the manuals for this gen set is because they are not released to the public. If you go to that link, listed above, and use the magnifying option to look at the cover of the TM, it will read that the manual is released to the public. If I were to post it here in SS, I would be in hot water.

 

[justacitizen]

One of the reasons its hard to get the manuals for this gen set is because they are not released to the public. If you go to that link, listed above, and use the magnifying option to look at the cover of the TM, it will read that the manual is released to the public. If I were to post it here in SS, I would be in hot water.

i just googled the description and those links popped up. did i break some rule for posting the link?

 

[CUCV_ut]

Hello I think what Guyfang was referring to the links where you could see the distribution statement on the TM that army navy store has listed. It is a limited distribution (I think we call it distribution B now) document. It says that it has limited rights data, probably copyrighted data. My hunch was maybe Deutz let them use their workshop manual in the TM but didn't want it freely distributed since they sell them and no one would buy them if they could get it for free from this manual. Just a hunch. For most things you can go right to Logsa and download the manual from the army but only for distribution A documents (freely distributable). I don't see any harm in you posting the links. I had actually seen it when I did a search, but they wanted a minimum of $18 shipping so I hadn't ordered it. I was actually a little discouraged when I went to pick the generator up. The seller just had one picture and didn't show the surge brake coupler that had been hacked up. Their description was equivalent to ran when parked. I'm a little skeptical how well it ran if it had some missing / messed up wiring. On the plus side it did have the crank for the rear stabilizer jacks, most of the ground rod kit, and some spare fuses. The down side is someone had stored a case of grease gun cartridges in the tool box and they had all come open and made an incredible mess I'm still trying to clean out.

 

[Guyfang]

CUCV,

You were right on all counts. I would have explained it somewhat better, but was using my phone. Sausage fingers, tiny keys. I hate not being at the computer.

No one should pay for ANY TM, if it's a Distribution Code A. That's the reason I have tried to post them all in SS. Sadly I can not post the manuals for the CTMGSA-5 set in SS.

 

[CUCV_ut]

Thanks for everyone's help so far on this. I've been looking over the schematic and have a lot of it figured out. The battery cables were cut off and I still have the end on the starter where the positive went. Does anyone know where they connected the negative wire? I'm assuming somewhere on the engine? That cable is totally gone. Does anyone have any parts for these? The parts manual appears to show a cover that goes over the air filter opening, I'd really like to find that. I've got some oil filters on order, they were just PH3512. Does anyone know of a common fuel filter or air filter that will fit? The parts manual lists the air filter as 70650-A, I cannot find one anywhere. When I searched I found that the NSN is 2940013241242, which shows Cummins provided some at one point 90948. I found one of those available for the reasonable price of $100 . I'm hoping it will cross over to something common and affordable. The FILTER ELEMENT, FLUID SECONDARY fuel is part number 85242-P. The STRAINER, FUEL/WATER 30 MICRON is 91669-A. I've googled them and cannot find a reference that goes anywhere. They look like a standard spin on fuel filter might fit but I'm not sure what may work.

 

[Guyfang]

[SIZE=+1]FLIS CHARACTERISTICS[SIZE=-1] for 85242-P

MRC	REQUIREMENTS STATEMENT	CLEAR_TEXT_REPLY USMetric FractionsX Decimal
ABPM	BODY DIAMETER	3.000 NOMINAL INCHES
ADNK	FLOW DIRECTION	INSIDE OUT
APGF	DESIGN TYPE	REUSABLE
CQJX	NOMINAL THREAD SIZE	16.0 MILLIMETERS
CRXW	FILTERING MEDIA DESIGN	PLEATED SINGLE FILTERING MEDIA RESPONSE
CXZX	FILTERING SYSTEM FOR WHICH DESIGNED	FULL FLOW
FEAT	SPECIAL FEATURES	USED ON FILTER/COALESCER 85242-P
MATT	MATERIAL	PAPER FILTERING MEDIUM
MEDA	MEDIA FOR WHICH DESIGNED	FUEL/OIL, HYDROCARBON
STYL	III STYLE DESIGNATOR	CYLINDRICAL W/INTEGRAL OUTER CASING
THSD	THREAD SERIES DESIGNATOR	ISO M

Have you tried looking up the NSN's and googling them?

[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[ZiggyO]

With the fuel filter, I have been there and done that--- it seems that the filter was a one off production with a port for the water sensor probe...... if you don't care about the probe, a standard filter will work (you just wont have that nifty little "water in fuel" light on your control panel).........

The air filter is also tricky..... I have searched for them and finally found some in a GL lot once...... That is all well and good but after the next two service intervals, I will be at square one again...... I have heard rumblings that it may be similar to a filter used on small powered equipment--- you could try a well-stocked lawnmower repair shop for something that can be made to work..........

 

[Chainbreaker]

Since this is a limited availability unit and apparently hard to find parts for, I would want to know if this is a runner or not and whether it produces electricity before investing $$$ in air/oil/fuel filters. It could be a runner (hope so!) or scrap iron/parts donor. I would take whatever is there and do an inspection of oil/fuel filters to see if they can be back-flushed with a solvent (mineral spirits or whatever suitable you have on hand). I would also take an air gun and blow out all accessible lines in case they have in gunk in them from sitting up. Its not going to hurt to run it briefly with used filters or open air filter plenum to see if it runs and produces electrical power. After that test, if it passes, order all the proper filters and then start it up again to get it hot and then drain oil and install new filters.

 

[Dwnorton1]

They used a metric sized filter 16mm in their custom machined base and only had one mfg that made them and they got bought out and no longer mfg. Ingenious actually, lots of one off parts so government was forced to buy spares from them. I switched mine over to a racor r12t filter like the mep-831 uses. Be sure to pull the little bosch IP and make sure it is free or if you try and run it and its not free, it is done. Ask me how I know. These hands down are the quietest generator I have ever messed with. 52 amps of single phase 120vac output. Also you can buy whole surge assembly like oem from croft trailer or similar trailer place, but likely at a cost higher than you paid for whole set-up.

If you get in bind for parts I have a couple of parts units. Just let me know.

 

[CUCV_ut]

Thanks for the various ideas. I think I will try and get it going with minimal repairs for now, as was pointed out it would not be smart to invest too much in it if there is something catastrophic with the engine. I found and replaced the diode that was broken in half (the one back by the relays). For now I'll splice or replace the cut battery cables. That should get me going enough to try it out and see if it runs. I'll pull the injector pump to inspect it before I turn it over, that was a good tip that I might have overlooked. I found out why the trailer light wiring was acting up. I've got to seal up those holes around the cables.

 

[CUCV_ut]

I spliced the battery cables that were cut off right where they went into the generator base. I used nice barrel crimps and 2 layers of heat shrink. It made a very good connection. The pump was not stuck so I decided to try firing it up. The prime function worked good and was pumping fuel ok, I check at the input to the injector pump. When I try and turn over the engine it did but was pretty sluggish. I couldn't nearly get it to spin fast enough to fire. It was putting little puffs of smoke out the exhaust like it wanted to work. I cracked the line at the injector and it was putting out fuel. My first though was maybe it was the splice in the battery cables. I used a short cable to hook the + right to the terminal on the starter and clipped the - right to the case. This still did not get it to spin any faster. I'm wondering if the starter might be bad. It seems like the solenoid is drawing more current that normal. Would a bad solenoid make the starter turn slower? I'm wondering if it's the solenoid or starter itself.

 

[CUCV_ut]

I had a little time this morning to work on the generator some more. I took the side panel off and got quite a surprise.

Looks like a rat or something found its way into the generator and was making a nest in the insulation. I wondered how the sound / acoustic worked, with the cover off you can see the various layers and how the air gets in and out of the generator.

I found a replacement solenoid for the starter so I figured I'd give that a try first as I have not been able to locate a starter yet.

The new solenoid did not fix the starter. When I had it off it felt like it had some play and might have a bad bearing or something. With the side cover off you can access the fan / flywheel between the generator and the engine. It didn't feel harder than most diesels to turn by hand so I'm pretty sure it's just got a bad starter. I'll keep looking for a replacement.

 

[Guyfang]

All in all, a nice setup. Good looking set. Well, aside from the hotel mousey. But as long as they didnt eat up any good stuff, you should be able to get this straight.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I agree, its not bad looking inside...no corrosion or rust and wiring harnesses look good. So I see this is a 12V system. Your battery looks big enough, are you 100% sure its fully charged and all cells are good? You could take out injectors and see how engine spins then. That might tell you something if still slow (starter issue) or spins faster with no compression as it should... You could also put in a few squirts of cylinder lube/cleaner like Marvel Mystery oil while you have injectors out and let sit overnight. No telling what inside of cylinders are like from setting. Could be a gummed up or some surface rust...

 

[CUCV_ut]

I was out working on the generator this weekend. I would like to thank Dwnorton1 for all his expertise and first hand knowledge and helping me locate a key part for this generator. I'd also like to thank Guyfang for his help, he was also instrumental in fixing this. I installed a replacement starter this weekend.

It turned over much faster and started puffing smoke before it fired off and started running. I let it run for a few minutes then changed the filter and oil and added some power service to the fuel tank. I looked at the controls and it showed 62 hz, I verified with my meter that it was right on the money. The volt meter only registered 40 volts though. Before getting concerned I checked it with a meter and adjusted it right to 120 volts. Turns out the volt meter is stuck, if I tap it it will move around some.

While I had the side off I tried to get some pictures of the generator itself.

Looks like the generator is made by Advance Power Inc. I couldn't find any info on that company, it might have gone out of business. The model is G661-500. It's a 2 wire unit rated at 52 amps 120 volts. I'm going to work on mounting a breaker box and a few more outlets on it so I can run some tools when I'm out working. I'll probably put a 30 amp RV outlet on too so I can run our trailer off it. It is surprisingly quiet for a 3600 RPM unit, the loudest noise was the exhaust flapper clanking around. Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post some pictures of it again when I get some outlets and breaker panel installed. I've also got some work to to repair the hydraulic surge brakes and lights still.

 

[Guyfang]

Good to go! Glad to hear that.

It's a Stewart and Stevens product. Back when I was a young soldier, S&S made some of the finest gen sets in the world.

Glad this worked out. And glad you closed the loop. It's always nice to hear that something works again.

Hope the weather is good at home. I used to live in Roy, and this should be start of getting cold time!!

Take care,

guy

 

[Chainbreaker]

Congrats, way to go! Glad you were able to bring another SS back to life and its running well and producing proper power. Now the fun begins in getting everything dialed in and set up the way you want it.