M135 transmision maybe destroyed from towing-First post

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I think my transmission is ruined from towing it about 45 miles. The tow truck never got over 45mph. The guy I bought it from said it will tow with the transfer case in neutral, but when the tow truck got here, the transmission was too hot to touch and smoking a little. Maybe it was stuck engaged or something. but now the oil smells burned. And after I repaired the engine, the truck doesn't move in gear. Also it wont shift into reverse. What do you think got destroyed inside? I'm prepared to rebuild if you guys think its rebuildable. Also I have a th350 with a 205 transfer case to take its place if I cant fix it.
I have
tm 9-8025-1
tm 9-8025-2
tm 9-8024

 

[m1010plowboy]

Page 70 on 9-8024 starts the info with "Towing to start the vehicle".

Then it goes on to say that towing with the transfer in down neutral under 15mph is groovy. Then it tells us to pull the front axle hub flange, transfer to pillow shaft and the transfer to forward rear axle if we go over 10 miles at 15 miles an hour.

Run through the transmission troubleshooting section starting on page 163 of 9-8024 before you give up on it. It walks you through oil pressure checks on the front and rear pumps, checking front band setting and a few other checks for condition.

The control valve on the side has a mechanism that can get hung up and not allow shifting so it could be as easy as pull, clean and reassemble. The burnt oil smell isn't good but we didn't see that transmission work before you got the truck home so we don't know enough to say whether it is usable.

Too bad you had to go through that before you had a chance to flip the manual. Hopefully you'll now be one of those guys that screams at the rest of us to read the TM's before we start touching the toys.

Welcome to Steel Soldiers and let's get that thing rolling so we can fill the seats.

 

[NDT]

Oh no. If the transfer was engaged, the hydramatic is gonna be hurt bad. Suggest pull the pan and take a look. The consensus here over the years seems to be nobody is really happy with repowers of these trucks.

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

Ok, thanks. I'll check that control valve tomorrow.
I'd like to keep it original if I can.
The last owner was no mechanic, but at least he painted everything he had off. It made it easy to find everything that's messed up. That motor was a nightmare to get running after he got done with it.
It sounds like a beast now though.
Btw, I found a carburetor kit for the holley 885 ffg at autozone for $14.99, I'll find the part number later. Accelerator pump didn't fit but the old one was decent, and the throttle body top gaskets were so thick that I only used one and removed the shim to get the cover air tight, so I have a spare too now

 

[m1010plowboy]

Transmission troubleshoot G749

More part numbers are always volcanic around here. Sounds like you found the parts link https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?137722-G749-Parts-List

Did you have the throttle linkage apart? Get a good look at the manual where it describes the linkage and the function of the throttle. It starts at page 355 in 9-8024 and it's one starting point.

It's such a cool 50's design I had to add a picture.



The TM will walk you through all the logical steps to diagnose her with the transmission in the truck. There is a reverse blocker bracket, funny name, a blocker bracket that will stop it from going into reverse or linkage.....or what NDT said. There are 10 items to check under the No Drive section so there's always hope.

 

[rustystud]

Oh no. If the transfer was engaged, the hydramatic is gonna be hurt bad. Suggest pull the pan and take a look. The consensus here over the years seems to be nobody is really happy with repowers of these trucks.

Personally when it comes to repowering my vehicle I don't care if it still is stock. I just want my truck to run and run reliably.
The main problem with all these old vehicles is parts. There are only so many parts available. They haven't made any Hydra-Matics for over 56 years now. All the stock piles of parts are almost all gone. I'm trying to rebuild one right now, and finding all the parts has become quite a challenge. I have three transmissions right now and that might not be enough. I can rebuild one right now, but it would not last very long. The bushings are worn out. The parts like the main shafts are worn out. I'm looking into "plating and grinding" some parts. That is extremely expensive. Also having some bushing's made is also expensive. I used to rebuild these transmissions but that was in the 1970's. Parts were getting hard to find even then.
Now all I can say is you better have deep pockets !
If I cannot get all the parts I need then that TH4L80 transmission is looking better all the time. Or just stay with the good old TH400.

 

[SturmTyger380]

The Army Manual states to not tow the M135/M211 more than 5 miles without dropping the drive shafts or transmission damage will result. Sorry to say.

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

The throttle linkage was already apart, but I did put it back together. Could that transmission linkage have anything to do with a "no drive" condition? I need to read up on the function of it. I assumed its for shifting.
I love this awesome old truck and even if I can't get it driving, I'll be happy to have it as a yard ornament.

 

[rustystud]

The throttle linkage was already apart, but I did put it back together. Could that transmission linkage have anything to do with a "no drive" condition? I need to read up on the function of it. I assumed its for shifting.
I love this awesome old truck and even if I can't get it driving, I'll be happy to have it as a yard ornament.

The throttle linkage is more shift control (quality of shift) then anything else.

 

[rustystud]

I know there are some who are taking offense at my earlier comments about parts availability. Well all it takes is a simple call to "Fatsco" and they will set you straight. The bushing kit "KH106A" is not complete. There are bushings that are no longer available from anywhere. The thrustwasher kit "KH111" is also not complete and is made up of mostly used washers.
The military reduction rebuild kit is no longer available and will never be again. There are "no" parts period.
The "Master Rebuild Kit" also is not complete. This is the premium rebuild kit offered. It does not have all the sealing rings. Only a select few are still available so you better not break one !
This is just one company but I've called just about everyone out there and they all say the same thing. Parts will soon no longer be available. One company refused to sell me some bushings as they need them for their rebuild customers.
Now about cost. I've spent a small fortune on this rebuild project and I still need more parts to do it right. I'm trying to the best of my ability to rebuild this to stock specifications, but it's looking like that might not be possible. Unless I spend another small fortune on machine shop time. With enough money anything is possible. The problem is I'm not made of money !
So for everyone who still has one of these great old Hydra-Matic transmissions in their truck I say you better take good care of it. Change the oil and clean the filter on a regular basis and don't "abuse" them !!!

 

[DUUANE]

I agree with rustystud..reliabillity and being able to afford to run a piece of equipment is key to my enjoment level.
That is exacly the reasoning behind my wanting to repower with a 350/MT653. What remains to be seen is if there is enough clearance to the upper front axle torque rod for the sae2 flywheel housing..if not.. it will be $$ or lack of reduction that kills the fun.
I doubt a th400 or 4L80E would have a deep enough 1st gear. Maybe a short shaft th400 with a unitized, converterless super case full manual valve body power glide hanging off the back...oh ya $$ again..
Or a rt6610 roadranger with an sae3 adapter..more fab work but less $$.
Lets cross fingers and hope the tooth fairy lets the #2 housing work.
My 302 is done so there will be engine and hydramatic parts available for those in need.

 

[USMC 00-08]

rustystud, can you get measurements/make drawings of the bushings, washers, seals, etc.? Maybe we could see what it would cost to have some made. Depending on material and complexity of some of it, I may be able to make some on CNC equipment as time allows.

 

[rustystud]

rustystud, can you get measurements/make drawings of the bushings, washers, seals, etc.? Maybe we could see what it would cost to have some made. Depending on material and complexity of some of it, I may be able to make some on CNC equipment as time allows.

That would be great ! I'm talking with my machine shop right now about some parts. The problem is they are so extremely busy my projects always get set aside. One good thing though, they can make-up lip seals. I'm looking at getting a set made of "Viton" or maybe "Silicone". That should last a little bit longer then stock ! Also just a reminder to those who are using NOS oil seals. Rubber breaks down even if it is just sitting on the shelf. I looked at some of the seals I recently bought and they are already going bad. That includes the input and output seals too.
Another thing I'm looking into is trying to find modern "equivalent" locking rings since there are only a few left for our transmission. Maybe a TH350 rings will fit, or a "Aisian 8" or "Jetaway" or a "C-6". Who knows until you try. That also goes for the thrustwashers. I still know a few transmission shops I can go to and find some answers.

 

[rustystud]

I agree with rustystud..reliabillity and being able to afford to run a piece of equipment is key to my enjoment level.
That is exacly the reasoning behind my wanting to repower with a 350/MT653. What remains to be seen is if there is enough clearance to the upper front axle torque rod for the sae2 flywheel housing..if not.. it will be $$ or lack of reduction that kills the fun.
I doubt a th400 or 4L80E would have a deep enough 1st gear. Maybe a short shaft th400 with a unitized, converterless super case full manual valve body power glide hanging off the back...oh ya $$ again..
Or a rt6610 roadranger with an sae3 adapter..more fab work but less $$.
Lets cross fingers and hope the tooth fairy lets the #2 housing work.
My 302 is done so there will be engine and hydramatic parts available for those in need.

I call "dibs" on the transmission !

 

[hambone]

Blake @ Red River Parts just told me he has a lot of parts for the hydramatic.

 

[USMC 00-08]

That would be great ! I'm talking with my machine shop right now about some parts. The problem is they are so extremely busy my projects always get set aside. One goof thing though, they can make-up lip seals. I'm looking at getting a set made of "Viton" or maybe "Silicone". That should last a little bit longer then stock ! Also just a reminder to those who are using NOS oil seals. Rubber breaks down even if it is just sitting on the shelf. I looked at some of the seals I recently bought and they are already going bad. That includes the input and output seals too.
Another thing I'm looking into is trying to find modern "equivalent" locking rings since there are only a few left for our transmission. Maybe a TH350 rings will fit, or a "Aisian 8" or "Jetaway" or a "C-6". Who knows until you try. That also goes for the thrustwashers. I still know a few transmission shops I can go to and find some answers.

If your machine shop comes through for you, could you still post up part blueprints for us?

 

[DUUANE]

The skf and rolls royce reps i work with vulcanize lip seals from cut to size stock. They use high tech epoxies and a heated press die. Maybe give the SKF marine division a call and see what they have. Then all you would need is a seal housing.
Rolls royce also used the hydramatic under licence i remember reading as well..

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

Theres a company I sent some seals to through the mail for a hydraulic cylinder, and they made me some new ones and sent them back. I don't see why it couldn't be done with these. I cant remember the company name, and I'm not sure about the rules on posting company names, so just google for it.

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I want to see somebody put two manual transmissions together and make it work with two shifters. You'd have the gearing you need

 

[rustystud]

If your machine shop comes through for you, could you still post up part blueprints for us?

I'll try.