Low Oil and stupidity

[fa35jsf]

First off, the stupidity comes from not checking the oil level before running my unit. It’s on my before start checklist, how dumb can I be?

Well I fired up my 802 today for probably the first time in 2 months. I let it run for about 20 minutes to charge up the batteries and just get fluids moving after not being used for so long. It ran great the whole time, no black smoke or nothing with oil pressure fluttering between 20-40psi.

After shutting down I decided to check the oil level. Yeah I know, wrong order to perform those tasks. First thing I noticed was the skid on that side looked to be covered in a light film and when I opened up the door there was a definite coating of thicker fluid on that side of the engine.

Well the oil was so low it didn’t even show up on the dipstick. There was just enough in the bottom of the engine to feed the oil pump without a drop to spare. That was what was probably causing the oil pressure fluctuations, gulping.

Well I filled it up with fresh oil and noticed the cap didn’t want to go on straight. Looks like it was cross threaded some point in the past, so the O-ring wasn’t even coming close to sealing the cap. That may be where I lost all my oil from. I also noticed my oil drain valve was opened just a little bit and even though I have a bolt screwed into the oil drain end, maybe a slow several month leak caused the oil to drip onto the skid?

Is there any place else I should be looking? Everything up top on the engine looked dry and hoses looked dry as well. It was really just the lower half of the engine that had a fine mist. I’m worried that if it wasn’t one of those two things above that it could be a crack in the motor, or at least a bad gasket somewhere.


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[Guyfang]

The engine under normal circumstances runs with a vacuum in the crankcase. So if you lost oil through the oil fill tube, you had a problem all along. You need to check for vacuum on the crankcase. The procedure is in the engine -24 manual. There is a quick test, and a more accurate test. The quick test is to start the set, remove the oil fill cap and hold a piece of paper (slightly bigger then the opening) in front of the opening. If the paper is sucked to the tube, you have vacuum. If it's pushed away, then no vacuum. No vacuume can be caused by bad rings. The more accurate method is to use a water manometer. If you don't have one, there are instructions on how to make a quick and dirty one. It is more then accurate. If the engine is running and you remove the cap, and oil spits out in your face, the testes are mute. You do not have a vacuume.

 

[fa35jsf]

Awesome, thank you for that advice. I’ll have to check that soon.


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[Bmxenbrett]

Guy have you tryed leaving the oil cap off and starting the set?...lol you only do that once. It may run at a vacuum but oul mist/drops come out of there like the crank is throwing it out.

Get the cap fixed, fill the oil, clean the set then run it to properly see if anything else is leaking.

 

[tennmogger]

Mute testes are a really bad thing.

 

[Guyfang]

I have on several instances, gotten a face full of oil. not something I recommend doing just before lunch time.

 

[fa35jsf]

So I ran it with the oil dipstick removed and there is definitely air moving around, mostly out I think. I don’t understand the concept of how the crankcase is suppose to be under negative pressure. It’s a sealed container with pistons moving up and down in an order. Where would the air go?


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[fa35jsf]

Oh, and I ran it for a little while, not too long, but didn’t see any oil leaks and it didn’t appear to consume any oil either.


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[Demoh]

This actually came up in another thread today. The valve covers and head have air passages that go into the intake so the vacuum caused by the engine sucking air and the air filter restricting it causes a vacuum. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...s-at-85-Load&p=2150029&viewfull=1#post2150029


And on a side note, I witnessed a friend walk over to one of his generators and fire it up. Ran for 2-3 minutes. I came over and he noticed it didnt sound quite right (sounds fine for me but I was on the other side of the yard for most of it's running). I checked the gauges and saw 0 on the oil pressure gauge so I bopped the clown on the nose. I didnt know if his gauges worked or not but when I see something wrong I act. I checked the oil. nothing but smoke. I pulled the oil filter, no oil. IDK why it had a filter but no oil but he never checked the oil before startup, and he never monitored the gauges either. I troubleshot the gen and found the LOP switch to be connected wrong. Did some testing and connected it correctly and confirmed the unit now shuts down with low oil pressure (not by actually running it tho)

I lectured him that it doesnt matter if I worked on a gen the previous day, I check the oil. Moral of the story: Follow a startup checklist and watch your gauges. This friend loves to show off his generator so any time it comes up in conversation he goes and fires it up (that bothers me so much, but Im a bit OCD when it comes to my generators and the ones I rebuild. Furthermore, THE LOW OIL SHUTDOWN SHOULD BE N/O (N/C WHEN RUNNING) BECAUSE PROPER SAFETY SYSTEMS DESIGN!!!!. I think thats one of the few but very large design flaws of the 802/3. If the wire breaks off the LOP switch (ive seen a few 5kws like that because they rattle so much) or its non-functional or disconnected the unit SHOULD shut down.... but with the current system the unit only shuts down when the circuit is closed. Well you cant close a circuit if its disconnected, broken off, or hooked up wrong so it was set up for failure in my book.

To this day it still bothers him because that was a pristine unit. Live and learn I suppose. Ive made more catastrophic mistakes. Just be glad your unit had oil in it instead of my friend's unit.

 

[Guyfang]

That may be a good reason to perform PMCS. A long time ago, in a land far away, we called it "Daily checks".

 

[fa35jsf]

Well I check the oil level now, and I’ve confirmed that the low oil pressure switch works by disconnecting it while the unit is running.

So how much if any should I dig into this positive pressure in the crankcase thing? I’m very convinced the oil loss was due to the cap not being put on correctly. The unit can hold around 105-110% no problem and doesn’t ever give off blue smoke. It doesn’t seem to burn or lose oil either, except for that one time.

I’m thinking if anything, the rings may have seized onto the piston and are allowing a little blow by.


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[Russ Knight]

First off, the stupidity comes from not checking the oil level before running my unit. It’s on my before start checklist, how dumb can I be?

Well I fired up my 802 today for probably the first time in 2 months. I let it run for about 20 minutes to charge up the batteries and just get fluids moving after not being used for so long. It ran great the whole time, no black smoke or nothing with oil pressure fluttering between 20-40psi.

After shutting down I decided to check the oil level. Yeah I know, wrong order to perform those tasks. First thing I noticed was the skid on that side looked to be covered in a light film and when I opened up the door there was a definite coating of thicker fluid on that side of the engine.

Well the oil was so low it didn’t even show up on the dipstick. There was just enough in the bottom of the engine to feed the oil pump without a drop to spare. That was what was probably causing the oil pressure fluctuations, gulping.

Well I filled it up with fresh oil and noticed the cap didn’t want to go on straight. Looks like it was cross threaded some point in the past, so the O-ring wasn’t even coming close to sealing the cap. That may be where I lost all my oil from. I also noticed my oil drain valve was opened just a little bit and even though I have a bolt screwed into the oil drain end, maybe a slow several month leak caused the oil to drip onto the skid?

Is there any place else I should be looking? Everything up top on the engine looked dry and hoses looked dry as well. It was really just the lower half of the engine that had a fine mist. I’m worried that if it wasn’t one of those two things above that it could be a crack in the motor, or at least a bad gasket somewhere.


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Don't feel bad. I ran one of my 803A's without water (assumed the water temp gauge was faulty) in it until it shut down on low oil pressure. About a year later, I filled it with water and anti-freeze and it started and ran flawlessly. Tough machines.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

Mine spits oil out if i run it with the cap off too. I wouldnt dig into it to much.