1956 M135 GMC I6 Conversion to Diesel?

[hungryhungarianz]

Greetings To Everyone,

I am excited to be apart of Steelsoldiers as I have recently acquired a 1956 M135 GMC Inline 6 6x6. I was told by the guy it can run multifuels. But looking closer at this engine as i dont know much but know a little. Im preety sure this is a gas engine? If i am wrong please correct me. And is it possible to have multifuel gas engine? And if not.............As i have been looking for a long time for a Biofuel 6x6 and rather then purchasing a M35 or something else now. I was wondering is there any conversions out there or does anyone know anyone that has dropped a Cummins Diesel or some other diesel engine into these machines to make them run on diesel? I'm sure there would be lots of work required to make it happen but any info would muchly be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[NDT]

Nope, you have the good old 302 gas engine. It wants gas. Numerous threads on this site about engine swaps. Nobody is really happy with what they did.

 

[m1010plowboy]

My jitterbugs are rumbling. Is there a number stamped on the passenger side of the frame behind the passenger front wheel? About 16 inches long with 3/4 inch numbers?

The wheels are odd and don't look like the correct offset for a M135. Obviously they could have put different wheels on it but the belly asks if the frame reads 1207XXXXX or 1211XXXXX.

Only an expert with decades of experience would question the M135 designation you were given so let's play expert. Data plates and previous owners may be mistaken .....but the frame stamp doesn't lie.

Welcome to Steel Soldiers and Early Deuce euphoria.

 

[hungryhungarianz]

Thank you NDT! I was hoping for a better answer but i guess im stuck with a 302. I will continue to search......

Thank you! m1010plowboy i took a pic of the stamp card . Is that what you are referring to?

 

[m1010plowboy]

Thank you NDT! I was hoping for a better answer but i guess im stuck with a 302. I will continue to search......

Thank you! m1010plowboy i took a pic of the stamp card View attachment 745986 . Is that what you are referring to?

That dataplate looks like it's been rusted to the dash for a long time. There is a 2nd number stamped on the passenger side of the frame behind the front passenger side wheel and it should read 113505615.
It's hard to see unless the frame is clean.

It'd be nice to get the engine running to try out the transmission. If you do a swap and have a running drive-train to pull out, I know of a few trucks that want them. A running M135 is an amazing ride.

 

[Bulldogger]

Clean her up and fire her up! --Take pictures and post them or it didn't happen. I like the round nose jimmy myself over the M35, but I admit multifuel is a nice feature to have. I guess I'd take either as a gift.
BDGR

 

[Carboarius]

The round nosed Jimmys are very dependable and as you are in Canada you'll most likely find a better parts supply for them up there than for the M35 series. I may be biased, but I prefer the Jimmys. The 302 really perks up when you feed her 91 octane ethanol free gasoline. As for the hydramatic most of them are trouble free, but there are numerous resources available to you in order to fix anything that might come up. That goes for any issues you might run into, when in doubt, just ask.

 

[Merle]

Fix her up and post more pics.

 

[USMC 00-08]

Welcome to Steel Soldiers! I agree with everyone else. Start her up and see what you've got. I prefer the M135 with gas engine over the M35 mulitfuel.

The wheels are odd and don't look like the correct offset for a M135. Obviously they could have put different wheels on it but the belly asks if the frame reads 1207XXXXX or 1211XXXXX.

I'm not sure if the Canadian Military used ORD 7 SNL G749, but my copy states that when the M135 wheel supply was exhausted, to use the M211 or M35 wheels. One of my trucks that came directly from the Army in the 1970's is in that configuration. The original owner that got it as surplus from the Army did not change the wheels. He brought it home and let it sit until I bought it about 40 years later.



Here's the two different wheels side by side.

 

[hungryhungarianz]

Greetings and Thank you again for all the Advice.

m1010plowboy

I looked for the second numbers but couldnt find. I will wait until it is home this weekend hopefully. I cant wait to fire her up and try it out in the yard. My wife will not be so happy but when she drives it she will love it. And i am looking forward as you say it is amazing ride.

Bulldogger

Soon as i tow her home this weekend hopefully my plan is to clean her up for sure as she needs a bath badly. I ordered a Panel with all the guages for her as she doesnt have one. And then my plan is to fire her up. The engine looks like its still very good shape. The oil does'nt smell bad from dipstick and their is still coolant in the radiator. I have no idea how long it sat for in this town but im sure it was a long time. As they told me it was a vehicle being passed down to another shop owner over the years. Soon as i drove passed by her i was in love and needed to have her. I find the shop owner and he gave me a good price for her and the rest is history now.

Merle

Will post pics for sure of the build as soon i get started this weeknd

Carboarius

You are very right. I don't mind the round nose jimmy and i kinda like it already as they mentioned it looks like a Jeep on steroids. My plan is to extend the cab and make it four door with a very unique wood finish camper/ hunters sleeper on the back. I found a guy in Alberta who has a bunch of them and maybe able to purchase parts from him in the future. Thank you for your feedback on the 91 octane i will try that for sure. As for the hydramatic transmission....i was doing some reading yesterday aboutt them on the net but have very little understanding yet about them. Is there anything special about them?

USMC 00-08

Thank you! And i will check out about the tires and take a closer pic of the size. I dont mind adding more beefier tires better for hunting.

In my quest for answers yesterday i stumbled accross some very little information but somewhat useful maybe to everyone. It is off a site called Roscommonequipmentcenter. I think they are located in the US and they even have a quote on how much they charge to change over the engine. But the most useful part about it was i found out what type of engine you can put into a M-135. Here is the quote from there site.

"2-1/2 TON 6x6 The REO 2-1/2 Ton repowering package consists primarily of a Detroit Diesel 4-53N engine. This 4-cylinder rated at 140 HP at 2,800 RPM, replaces the REO engine. The 4-53N engine mates with the existing transmission. The package includes all parts necessary to change fuel, exhaust, cooling, and electrical systems (to 12-volt). There is no significant weight change. The NAPCO repowering package costs about $11,300 plus shipping and 70 hours of labor for installation. The cost from General Motors of a Detroit Diesel 4-53N engine alone would be about $8,500. Other packages are available to overhaul axles, transmission, transfer case, brakes, and suspension. A package also exists for the GMC 2-1/2 Ton, which includes a Funk Power Shift for the transmission."

They also have some info for the M-35 I think and here it is...


"5-TON 6x6 A Detroit Diesel V-6 engine model 6V-53N is the basis of the 5-Ton repowering package. Again, the package includes exhaust, 12-volt electric, cooling, and other necessary modification parts. Also, an automatic 5-speed transmission is necessary and included. NAPCO estimates a cost of $23,000 to $24,000 plus shipping and 100 hours of labor for the 5-Ton package. The Detroit Diesel engine alone would cost over $12,000 from General Motors. Because of the new engine configuration, this package modifies some of the 5-Ton dimensions, but as with the 2-1/2 Ton, there is no significant change in weight. The purchase of a new 5-Ton 6x6 cab and chassis by state forestry agencies has been discussed between the USDA Forest Service and the Pentagon. New purchase cost would be about $70,000."

http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/nn2.pdf

Now for some of you may have info or know about these engines but i know very little about the Detroit Diesel 4-53N engine. But from what i see i kinda like, but it will be years from now unless i find one in a oldtimers yard here on the west pacific coast as they were used in boats i assume. Does anyone know that this will work? And another question what is a Funk Power Shift for the transmission? Thats what they state in there info for the M135. So i assume with a Detroit Diesel 453N engine you need a Funk Power Shift Transmission? lol no idea what that is but hopefully someone can explain.

 

[Carboarius]

You are very right. I don't mind the round nose jimmy and i kinda like it already as they mentioned it looks like a Jeep on steroids. My plan is to extend the cab and make it four door with a very unique wood finish camper/ hunters sleeper on the back. I found a guy in Alberta who has a bunch of them and maybe able to purchase parts from him in the future. Thank you for your feedback on the 91 octane i will try that for sure. As for the hydramatic transmission....i was doing some reading yesterday about them on the net but have very little understanding yet about them. Is there anything special about them?
http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/nn2.pdf

Now for some of you may have info or know about these engines but i know very little about the Detroit Diesel 4-53N engine. But from what i see i kinda like, but it will be years from now unless i find one in a oldtimers yard here on the west pacific coast as they were used in boats i assume. Does anyone know that this will work? And another question what is a Funk Power Shift for the transmission?

That PDF is from 1998 so I am sure all those prices are no longer relevant.
It would be interesting to contact NAPCO and get a quote.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Funk Power Shift is like the REB shifter that was available years ago from Memphis Equipment. A lot of good info on those here: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySection/6x6 Trucks/HydramaticHvn.html
A good read that covers some of the quirks of the Hydramatic well.
The manuals are as good a place to start as any and can be found here on the forum or here:
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/jatonkaM135-211sTMdownloadpage.htm

The Hydramatic in the jimmy's are an automatic 4 speed with 2 ranges. These are originally designed to operate with 10 weight oil in them, NOT automatic transmission fluid. The engine is governed to help the hydramatic operate properly, as each range has two "modes" in how it operates.
The modes are level and hilly. Hilly just allows the engine to tach up higher to climb and functions as sort of an engine brake to slow you down going down hill. Level is fine for most driving.

 

[Bulldogger]

Tech Manuals

Several TMs are available here on the site. Here are two links. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?106483-More-M135-TM-shttps://www.steelsoldiers

The most interesting quirk I read about the hydramatic in this series truck is in the operators manual where, if I understood it correctly, the driver should push the truck to the audible shift point (I.e. sounds right) and snap the pedal to the floor. This is what engages the shift. Most auto transmissions don’t do that, none that I’ve driven. I think this is one of the reasons the M135 and M211 get a bad rap for their drivetrain.

You seem to be enthusiastic so I hope a restoration thread starts up soon!

Bulldogger

 

[NDT]

I drove my M135 almost as a daily driver for many years and the transmission operated like any other, except for the violent 2-1 downshift. The 302 spent lots of time against the governor at 3400 RPMs.

 

[hungryhungarianz]

SHE IS COMING HOME!!!!! She is coming home!!!!.................

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thank you! m1010plowboy for all the parts sent. Appreciate it a lot as i couldn't find what i need here. The parts are in transit. This weekend will start the tare down i am so excited. And the wife is happy too! Have a wonderful day to everyone![/FONT]

 

[Bulldogger]

Congratulations! As a wannabe M211/M135 owner I envy you. Please don't stop sharing pictures and updates. We'll encourage you as best we can. Here is a thread about s movie that featured one of these, that was recently shared with this site https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?182169-A-Lost-Classic-Truck-Film (You can find it on You Tube in pieces, cool film)

Bulldogger

 

[Tracer]

SHE IS COMING HOME!!!!! She is coming home!!!!.................View attachment 747011View attachment 747012View attachment 747010

Thank you! m1010plowboy for all the parts sent. Appreciate it a lot as i couldn't find what i need here. The parts are in transit. This weekend will start the tare down i am so excited. And the wife is happy too! Have a wonderful day to everyone!

Hungry, here are a couple of pics of my friend Sonny Hanson's 1953 GMC M135. This truck was in similar condition to yours when Sonny purchased it several years ago. And with patience and a little help from his friends, Sonny got her lookin and running like new. It's great you got the truck home, now the fun starts!!! Also nice that your wife is happy as well!! Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[m1010plowboy]

SHE IS COMING HOME!!!!! She is coming home!!!!.................

Thank you! m1010plowboy for all the parts sent. Appreciate it a lot as i couldn't find what i need here. The parts are in transit. This weekend will start the tare down i am so excited. And the wife is happy too! Have a wonderful day to everyone!

You have our attention! Credit to the T's from MLU for the photo.




There is still a bunch of work to do on the gauges. .......Just wanted to add that we must do some reading on potential radiation hazards with gauge packages before you dismantle anything...... You may need more gauge parts after testing and I will come get any spare pieces when I deliver a shiny new muffler to you. I passed the boss 3 gauge assemblies so really hoping you can make one good one. Same deal with the rods, I gave him a handful so what you don't use or can't clean up, we'll stick them back in the barn. You will love that 302 so best of luck.



Still interested in that frame stamp behind the passenger front wheel. I'll sleep better if it matches the data plate. Looks kinda like this when your head is tilted over too far.

 

[hungryhungarianz]

Bulldogger

Thank you for the Thread on the video i will watch as soon as i am done writing this. And i will continue to share pictures so everyone can enjoy as i am enjoying your guys.

Tracer

Thank you for the pictures i appreciate it and that truck sure looks good. The fun has already started today. I couldnt go framing outside on house addition because of a lot of rain. So i came home and started ripping everything out of the inside and cleaning her up. I was having so much fun. I love being inside the hood of vehicle that you can actually sit inside of beside the engine and fiddle around. And standing on the front bumper i realised i was so high above everything. It will be so useful for calling in all the moose for next hunting season hahahaha.

Mr. D m1010plowboy

Thank you for the awesome pic. I will print it out and stick it to the post of the garage for motivation. I will be careful and read up on the gauges before i become radioactive lol. But i appreciate it and will try to do my best to figure out what wire goes where? lol Thank you for the rods and that is one nice shiny muffler for sure. Must sound good as well!........ But as i was sitting inside the engine hood and looking at the cover that was taken off. I was wondering do the push rods just sit inside those holes like that or is there something supposed to be on top of them pushing them down?

I was looking today as i was cleaning up the inside and outside and i cannot see or find where this number is. Tomorrow i will look more closely now as you sent me a picture. I will try to find it.....

When i buy something like a gas engine first thing i always do is go and get a new spark plugs for it. Today i went to Napa and tried to get spark plugs for it but didnt want to spend the $20 a piece right now. But i took a picture of there computer screen. And the guy asked me is it a alternative fuel engine? I said um no i dont think so as i was told........So here is my question........How come it says on there description for these spark plugs listed for these engines thats its compatible with alternative fuels????? Please tell me what this means? And why are these spark plugs look the way they do? Is it possible that i can run multi fuel in this engine?

I upload more pics as i started the clean up and tare down.

 

[Bulldogger]

Bulldogger

Thank you for the Thread on the video i will watch as soon as i am done writing this. And i will continue to share pictures so everyone can enjoy as i am enjoying your guys.
When i buy something like a gas engine first thing i always do is go and get a new spark plugs for it. Today i went to Napa and tried to get spark plugs for it but didnt want to spend the $20 a piece right now. But i took a picture of there computer screen. And the guy asked me is it a alternative fuel engine? I said um no i dont think so as i was told........So here is my question........How come it says on there description for these spark plugs listed for these engines thats its compatible with alternative fuels????? Please tell me what this means? And why are these spark plugs look the way they do? Is it possible that i can run multi fuel in this engine?

I upload more pics as i started the clean up and tare down.

View attachment 747056

Happy to help with the video.

As to the spark plugs, someone with a more technical outlook will chime in I'm sure, but the short answer if I understand it correctly is they are hardened/improved to be sealed against water intrusion to preserve the electrical connection so they will spark. The spark is a high voltage signal, and military trucks are built for fording water. The plugs must be protected from shorting out.

BDGR

 

[m1010plowboy]

M135 learning curve

As Mick Jagger says, "Jumpin' Jack flash it's a gas, gas, gas.


It's great seeing another new guy go at these trucks so let's sit down and open up those manuals.




I am no mechanic so not offering that kind of advice but it's mostly covered in the manuals. At one time I'd look at these pages and see nothing but a pile of parts and arrows. Now I look at them and see the parts and a bunch of coffee stains so for some of us, it'll take more time to get up to speed. These days I set valves myself but couldn't have done it without patient teachers, coffee and books.



It would be easier to have a complete engine to look at so you're welcome to buy or borrow one.




Now that you've prioritized step 1, ...try to get original 302 running,..... your enabling objectives will come easier. Pull out those spark plugs and we'll work on the 'mechanical' function' of the engine first. Once the valve train is in, adjusted and the engine turns by hand we'll see if it's worth taking step 2. I think that's a compression test to see if head gasket and rings are healthy but I'd need a coffee and the "Trouble shooting" section of TM 9-8024 manual.... which are available in the posts above as well as on line.

If we get to step 2 and we find you need spark plugs......We'll start with the 6 used ones that are in the spare engine. Right now they're $20.00 each online but you'd like to pay less than $12.00 so we could wait for spark plugs until you see if this one has compression.


I've read more posts where guys start talking about putting in new drive-trains then I have about guys successfully putting new drive trains in..... but it can be done. Here's a pic of a standard transmission. Thee 366 big block/ allison combo story is great, there's a Detroit diesel story, pics of a 502BB in a Deuce, all kinds of magic hands have repowered the round nose deuce.



https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?64695-m135-underpowered/page3

Here's a potato cam video of Step 12.......the first start....You have an elephant to beat before you get here so grab a book and a coffee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COm8li9E7yU&feature=autoplay&list=HL134285+2270&playnext=1


HEY....did the site change colors, texture, harmony, rhythm and balance....or am I the only one seeing blurry, yellow text.....maybe I have jaundice?