torquing head studs for oil leak

[sgoeser]

I feel stupid for asking this question, having been a mechanic for 25 years and a garage owner for 17 years too. My last multi fuel engine gave me so much grief I am gun shy. Five head studs broke at the block after replacing the head gaskets. All were in the water jacket. I bought a new engine still in the shipping container with just test time on it. It runs so smooth and quiet compared to the last one. I now have a little over 3000 miles on it. The other day after pulling my stock trailer with a 1000lb. steer in it at and over 6000 feet for about 300 miles the engine throw 2 qts. of engine oil. All coming from the front of the front head. Can I see if retorquing the stud nuts will cure the problem. I'm afraid of breaking the studs as in the last engine. The crankcase has "TD" identification. Should I go for it with 157 lbs. Or back them all off and re torque as called for in the manual? Or just torque the 4 front most head stud nuts and see what happens? I have spent too much time and money on the last engine and now with finding the new replacement engine and install. I am 73 and don't climb and bend like when I was 38 and being a mechanic can't spend the money paying another to do what I use to do. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Floridianson]

Did you use the newer style head gasket with the fire ring installed in the gasket and in bossed sealer?

Oops just reread the post and saw you did not have the heads off the new motor. My bad.

 

[sgoeser]

I have no idea, sorry. I do have a correction to make. The oil went down about a 1/16 of an inch on the dipstick. Read the oil level wrong. Under the truck, on the tailgate and trailer it did look like 2 Qts.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I retorqued mine (new style head gasket) with no ill effects. The head nuts were certainly loose, after correct install and a few hundred kilometers and hot/cold cycles. I was quite surprised.
Still...gasket is seeping.

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[Floridianson]

Are you running more boost that stock settings Cattlerepairman?

 

[cattlerepairman]

I usually keep boost in the 7-10 psi range. Very rarely do I not pay attention and the D turbo happily boosts up to 15.

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[Floridianson]

I usually keep boost in the 7-10 psi range. Very rarely do I not pay attention and the D turbo happily boosts up to 15.
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Yea last head gasket job on my Deuce was done by the last owner / my friend and he used the new style. No problems so far but the truck has been sitting for years just the fire up to move or run around the yard. Do you think yours is the gasket problem or head lifting? Don't quote me on this one but was there a thread where someone said TM said no retorque but everyone agreed that it was better to cycle up once and then retorque. I don't know if mine was done. As for this op's thread myself would go for a back off / loosen then retorque.

 

[cattlerepairman]

From what I experienced, I definitely agree with the "retorque" crowd. As I said, new style gasket, followed the torque sequence, run it a few times and all nuts were unequal. Some looser then others but all were significantly backed off from original specs. No wonder the gasket would start leaking.

I don't think it is a bad gasket in my case. I think it is the design of the thing in general. It causes head lifting (in my opinion). I did not spring for the ARB head studs with higher clamping force because my block is not a TD block. Some people said it is not worth rebuilding in the first place. I did not think the casting would support the torque the ARB studs are made for. You should not even tighten them to TD block values.

 

[sgoeser]

I am thinking you may have the idea with the back off then retorque. I might torque one to see how it feels first. If there is felt some binding or feels like it is tighter than 157 lbs. the back off will be needed. Thanks

 

[sgoeser]

If you can me tell about hood lift kit.

 

[JasonS]

I feel stupid for asking this question, having been a mechanic for 25 years and a garage owner for 17 years too. My last multi fuel engine gave me so much grief I am gun shy. Five head studs broke at the block after replacing the head gaskets. All were in the water jacket. I bought a new engine still in the shipping container with just test time on it. It runs so smooth and quiet compared to the last one. I now have a little over 3000 miles on it. The other day after pulling my stock trailer with a 1000lb. steer in it at and over 6000 feet for about 300 miles the engine throw 2 qts. of engine oil. All coming from the front of the front head. Can I see if retorquing the stud nuts will cure the problem. I'm afraid of breaking the studs as in the last engine. The crankcase has "TD" identification. Should I go for it with 157 lbs. Or back them all off and re torque as called for in the manual? Or just torque the 4 front most head stud nuts and see what happens? I have spent too much time and money on the last engine and now with finding the new replacement engine and install. I am 73 and don't climb and bend like when I was 38 and being a mechanic can't spend the money paying another to do what I use to do. Thanks for your comments.

The OEMs who used a lower compression version of the multifuel in tractors blocked off the oil passages in the block/ head and ran external oil lines to the head. Presumably to address the persistent oil leaks. Suggests that this cannot be totally eliminated unless you do the same.

 

[Floridianson]

From what I experienced, I definitely agree with the "retorque" crowd. As I said, new style gasket, followed the torque sequence, run it a few times and all nuts were unequal. Some looser then others but all were significantly backed off from original specs. No wonder the gasket would start leaking.

I don't think it is a bad gasket in my case. I think it is the design of the thing in general. It causes head lifting (in my opinion). I did not spring for the ARB head studs with higher clamping force because my block is not a TD block. Some people said it is not worth rebuilding in the first place. I did not think the casting would support the torque the ARB studs are made for. You should not even tighten them to TD block values.

Yea thanks. Thought some said they were going with ARB and I have the TD block. I did not know about the higher torque on the TD blocks.

 

[cattlerepairman]

From the back of my head, non-TD block torque is 132 ft lbs, TD is 157 ft lbs. Both with sequential torquing to these values.

 

[sgoeser]

I look it up 130 ft. lbs for the non-TD, so your head was really close.

 

[sgoeser]

That's way interesting.