MEP002A no start

[Ray70]

Jonathan, On second thought, if you are seeing the back end of the needle with the 1/16" hole in it, that is in the correct orientation.
Pointy end ( right hand side in your 2nd picture ) inward like a needle valve and the end with the hole and shoulder ( left hand side in your 2nd picture ) sticking outward ( which I believe is the conical piece with 1/16" hole you describe ) with the spring around the shoulder.
It's really starting to sound like you have all the parts still in place and not missing anything, but a picture is worth.... well, you know!
Good luck, let us know what you find this weekend.

 

[renuing]

Jonathan, On second thought, if you are seeing the back end of the needle with the 1/16" hole in it, that is in the correct orientation.
Pointy end ( right hand side in your 2nd picture ) inward like a needle valve and the end with the hole and shoulder ( left hand side in your 2nd picture ) sticking outward ( which I believe is the conical piece with 1/16" hole you describe ) with the spring around the shoulder.
It's really starting to sound like you have all the parts still in place and not missing anything, but a picture is worth.... well, you know!
Good luck, let us know what you find this weekend.

Thanks again Ray, I'm really anxious to take a look now. I wish the genset wasn't an hour drive away but I'll take a good look this weekend and snap some pictures.

 

[renuing]

I've been looking forward to writing this post for over a year...I had success this weekend and was able to get the generator running for the first time! I'm super excited. This genset will be used to power my woodworking workshop where I don't have access to grid power so I'm pretty happy to have it going. Huge thanks to @Ray70 for rebuilding the injectors, that seems to have been the issue. Also, special thanks to @jamawieb for all your help. Here's how it went this weekend...

I pulled the injector pump cap off the front, unscrewed the holder, and took the spring and delivery valve out like I had before. Then I used a small tool with a hook on it and LIGHTLY pulled it along the inside wall where the delivery valve sat and out came the black plastic spacer all in tact. I took a picture of the parts I was able to get out.


Then I looked inside the injector pump and saw the familiar piece with a 1/16" hole in it


My friend turned the engine over by hand and sure enough that was the plunger head, it turned freely and moved in and out just like it should. It sounds like from other posts and images in the Ambac rebuilt guide that most plunger heads are a solid piece. Maybe I misunderstood, but mine decidedly has a hole in the middle. Here is the plunger motion.

Satisfied that the plunger was working properly, I decided to put it back together and figured I would just need to obtain the missing needle valve and then I could try and crank it up again. I put a little clean diesel in a container to rinse each part off as I re-inserted them into the injector pump. When I got to the holder, for whatever reason, I looked inside before cleaning it and saw the needle valve stuck in there!!!! I nearly fell over, obviously when I put things back together last year I got mixed up. I turned the holder over and out it fell. I then re-assembled everything correctly and tried cranking it over. It took a bit but all of a sudden white smoke!! That was a first. A few more cranks and she was going. The unit has 459 hours on it and seems nearly fully in tact. I even found the grounding rods and brand new aux fuel cable wrapped up and tucked in on the floor.

I let it run for a couple mins and then changed the oil, oil filter, both fuel filters and put the ASK back on. Boy does she sound good. I'm elated. This is my first experience with these generators so any quick tips or advance anyone wants to share I would welcome. I know there are sticky's and TMs I need to read up on but any tips would certainly help.

The next part I have my fingers crossed about is that I have a 5hp 1phase Leeson motor (20.5 FLA) for my dust collector that I hope this baby can get going. I've read the thread about the breaker popping with induction loads like this. Real world running power should be around 15-17amps at 230V but start up power is supposed to be 105amps. I could get a microair easy start which would drop the starting amps to 30 but it's $325 and I'm not sure how that would affect the Leeson motor long term. I could also try changing the motor out for a 3 phase and get a VFD which would probably be the best option but more involved. I really hope it just works, otherwise I'll probably start another thread looking for options.

For now I'm really excited and need to work on getting 80' of SER cable to run up to the shop and then a subpanel and starting wiring things up.

Can't thank everyone enough, there's no way I could have gotten it running without this group.

Jonathan

 

[Guyfang]

All things come to the person with paticence and determination.

 

[Ray70]

That's awesome! cool that you found the needle and even better that you're up and running! Nice that it's an ASK unit too. Now the bad news.... I really doubt you will be able to start that 5 hp motor. I've tried starting my 3 hp Sharp milling machine and even a 2 hp lathe with a 002A and the breaker pops without the motor even twitching. The inrush is just too much for the breaker.
Best you can do is give it a try, see what happens, but the breaker is almost sure to give you a problem.
If it does, you can try bypassing the breaker and using a standard type breaker to see if it will start the motor, otherwise.... VFD.

 

[renuing]

Ray,

That's what I was afraid of Well, once I get my wiring in I'll give it a shot and see what it will and will not start. It's wayyyy better than nothing though!!

 

[Chainbreaker]

Glad to hear you got it running! That's a low hours unit and being an ASK unit probably fairly well preserved from a weathering perspective.

Though in reviewing the video a couple times, the exhaust looks a bit smokey (bluish). Was that video shot before or after you changed the oil? You should put a good ~75%+ load on it, if you can, and let it run for an hour under load and it should clear up the exhaust. You might also consider putting in a can of Seafoam in the fuel beforehand to dissolve any gunk/deposits that might reside in the system.

 

[renuing]

Thanks Chainbreaker. I was a little concerned with the smoke too but it cleared right up after the oil and fuel filters were changed. I was actually surprised at the difference. I'm sure the seafoam and load couldn't hurt though and will plan to do that. Here it is running after the filters and oil were changed and the ASK reassembled. It hiccuped a few times but I think that might be a little air still working its way out.

I've read about how people load test their generators with heating elements and barrels of water. The property where the shop is is pretty bare bones and I don't have any water there right now. Any suggestions on easy ways to load up the generator? I've got my woodworking tools and plan to plug those in to test it out once I get wiring but wondering what other options there might be without investing a lot. Thanks!

I just realized, I've got an electric dryer on the property, maybe that would be good? An 1800W heat gun too.

 

[Guyfang]

Do not run the set for long time periods or under load with the ASK doors open, so you can overheat the set. It's designed to run with the doors closed, to properly channel cooling air flow.

 

[renuing]

Guyfang, thank you for the tip! I was going off of what I read in TM 5–6115-584-12 Chapter 2 page 2-2. For Operating Procedures it says to "open air intake access door on ASK" Am I interpreting it wrong maybe or am I supposed to close it at some point? Thank you, Jonathan

 

[Guyfang]

No, follow the book. That was just a general reminder. Often, when I worked on ASK gen sets, the box is a PITA. I hated them. Yes cuts the sound down to a nice purr, but working on the set was a PITA. Some folks take the kit off, and run it. And wonder why it over heats. NO, no, you are doing right. I think you will be happy with the set.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Thanks Chainbreaker. I was a little concerned with the smoke too but it cleared right up after the oil and fuel filters were changed. I was actually surprised at the difference. I'm sure the seafoam and load couldn't hurt though and will plan to do that. Here it is running after the filters and oil were changed and the ASK reassembled. It hiccuped a few times but I think that might be a little air still working its way out.

I've read about how people load test their generators with heating elements and barrels of water. The property where the shop is is pretty bare bones and I don't have any water there right now. Any suggestions on easy ways to load up the generator? I've got my woodworking tools and plan to plug those in to test it out once I get wiring but wondering what other options there might be without investing a lot. Thanks!

I just realized, I've got an electric dryer on the property, maybe that would be good? An 1800W heat gun too.

Yes, looks like the exhaust is cleared up now. Still good to run a can of Seafoam in it when load testing a "new to you" unit.

A 240V electric dryer will work quite well. I used our house's 5600 Watt dryer to put a nice balanced load on it before I purchased a Comfort Zone 5000 Watt (2 settings) Garage type heater . Although, I wish I had bought the 7000 Watt Comfort Zone with 3 settings instead to run it up to and past 100%.

A strong running MEP-002a can pull 7 kW at near sea level for a while but be careful with running it above 100% load with an ASK kit on it in your climate loaded as you might trip the thermal cut out temp sensor in head. You will definitely notice the louvered shutters opening if they are working properly. The nice thing in using a Garage type heater with different wattage settings is that you can easily step up the load increments as unit warms up. However, I doubt you have much use for Garage heaters where you live!

 

[renuing]

Chainbreaker, thanks for the info. I'll have to pay attention to any heat build up as I begin to use it. I don't really need the ASK where I'm at but of course it's nice. If my loads are on the high end I would definitely consider removing it to keep the temps down. I'd like to build a cover of some sort to protect from excessive rain and I think it could serve to reduce some of the heat from the sun. We have some pretty consistent breezes.

Jonathan

 

[Guyfang]

Chainbreaker, thanks for the info. I'll have to pay attention to any heat build up as I begin to use it. I don't really need the ASK where I'm at but of course it's nice. If my loads are on the high end I would definitely consider removing it to keep the temps down. I'd like to build a cover of some sort to protect from excessive rain and I think it could serve to reduce some of the heat from the sun. We have some pretty consistent breezes.

Jonathan

If you remove the ASK, you have to put back on the old covers, or once again, over heating.

 

[renuing]

Thanks again for your post @Guyfang I'm truly learning something every time someone posts.

I like having the ASK and think I will be able to get by with it but just in case, what would the old covers be? I received the unit with the ASK installed so don't know it any other way. Looking at the diagrams in the TM and pictures online, it seems I have everything installed under the ASK that everyone else does. The Close to Run box is there. The only thing I'm not sure about are the air louvers under the exhaust, I'll look tomorrow. I'm missing the grill that goes over the blower but that's the only thing I can see that is different.

I don't want to overheat so just making sure I understand everything. It seems to me that my unit looks like all the others I have seen, and that are shown in the TM, but the ASK panels are just added on.

Jonathan

 

[Guyfang]

Look in TM 9-6115-585-34, PDF reader page number 171. It tells you what you have to remove and what you have to replace. If you cant find it, let me know.

 

[renuing]

Brilliant! That definitely helps.

 

[Chainbreaker]

You can also search for "MEP-002a" on eBay and several without ASK should pop up. You can then see visually the non-ASK configuration but the TM page Guy referenced is best to use to confirm what you are missing if you elect to go ASK-less.

 

[Ray70]

So, I learn something new every day! Today I went to work on my last 002a I have yet to finish and it has an injection pump problem.
The typical stuck plunger and stiff control lever etc. I took it out and disassembled it to find the plunger broken in half.
I pulled the pump off of a spare parts unit I have, only to find that plunger broken as well.
Lastly I went to a spare motor I have set aside for a diesel log splitter project and.... same thing, broken plunger.
Now for the interesting part: When Renuing was talking about his plunger with the hole in the center, I had never seen such a thing.
Also, all 3 of the pumps I looked at today all use a plunger with a drive pin instead of the Ambac 50 with the Dogbone "Plunger Guide"
Every machine I have worked on previously had an Ambac 50 pump with a solid plunger. I have never see this "American Bosch PSU" pump with a hole in the end of the plunger and this poor design drive pin until today.
Does anyone know if you can buy this style Plunger and the drive pin from Ambac, as it appears they sell parts for them?
Or should I lean towards converting to a model 50 for these motors?

 

[Guyfang]

Is there any part numbers on the pump? If you have a bit more ID info, I can try and ask some in CECOM.