I am looking at buying a 1078 truck, not a newb with military trucks I've had several 9 series 5 tons but this is my first foray into the LMTV arena. I really want one with a winch but it seems there are more available without them. I have been looking and it seems there is a chelsea pto available for the MD3070 transmission has anyone ever installed one on a truck without one. Wanting to put a hydraulic lifting boom on the truck. Thanks.
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1078 PTO Question
- Thread starter twrecks
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@ramdough has just got done doing a pto install. As well as @Awesomeness.
I recommend a Muncie type pto. Cheaper price. Better support and service. The Parker clutch type ptos have some issues. Including being noisy.
Muncie pto has a build a pto program on their site for your pump and hp specs that need to be specific.
I recommend a Muncie type pto. Cheaper price. Better support and service. The Parker clutch type ptos have some issues. Including being noisy.
Muncie pto has a build a pto program on their site for your pump and hp specs that need to be specific.
You would have to design your own. I do not know what horsepower you would want.
Nor do I know what pump setup you intend to run wether it be a 7/8-13spline pump or a keyway type. That is totally up to your choice.
Its a simple step by step guide to find the pto you want. Just select the Allison from the menu then select 3070 then follow what ratio and hp setup you want. Then the attachment setup style you want and it will give you a part number.
Power Take-Offs | Mpower Specification Software
For over 75 years, Muncie Power Products has been an innovative leader in the Truck Equipment industry providing power take-offs, hydraulic pumps, valves, cylinders, shaft extensions, and numerous other mobile power components.
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You can find a Muncie distributor local to you. However find one not in your state. Buy from them. Have them drop ship the pto to you so you don't have to pay sales tax on it.
ramdough
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Yeah, we did the PTO install with the ones that came with the winches we took from another truck. It is doable on the truck, just need extra hands and some problem solving skills..... it was a pain to get in there.
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Agreed, it's a hassle to install. Pretty much every bolt or hose can only barely be accessed from some other odd, contorted spot/position. Reach up over the muffler with a handful of univeral joints and extensions to get that one, raise the cab and reach down from above to get this one, buy a crow's foot and come up from straight below for that one, ... on and on.
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The pto port is a very tight location. Probably easier to find a truck with pto already.
ramdough
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If you can find a truck with a winch, it would probably be cheaper than buying them separately.
In my case, my situation unfolded a different way, so I did the transfer.
It is doable, but you need two people.
You need different wrenches than a super basic kit would have.
You need to remove your front drive shaft, your front cross member, and we used ratchet straps to take up lifting load as we inch by inch moved it into position.
I would consider this an advanced pain in the rear wrenching job as far as getting it in there without damaging the metal gasket.
There was more room on the A0, than the A1.
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A few days minimum. It's a lot of hassle. And then stuff doesn't work right... like I just had to have a new hose made, and for the life of me I can't get the tank clamps on (it's like they're too short, even though I know they just came off there).
ramdough
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Took me and another guy three 12 hour days.
Had multiple tool and bolt runs plus rebuilt the rollers.
We could have done it much faster had we known how to do it. Luckily [mention]Awesomeness [/mention] was doing the same thing at the same time, so we were able to bounce ideas.
I still got bit, I have a bolt that I did not remove that is now pinned in place by the PTO that I need to remove before I can finish.
A forklift helped, but not necessary with an engine hoist.
I don’t mind talking you through it if you end up going that route.
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It's not really a "better / worse" kind of thing. It really depends on a bunch of other factors, such as...
- How much do you care about it being original (either for historical reasons, or just that the ridiculously overbuilt nature of it will match the character of the truck)?
- How much experience do you have setting up PTO hydraulic equipment?
- How much free time do you have, and what is your time worth to you? Even at "several days to remove and reinstall" the OEM winch is already all figured out (e.g. correct length and size of lines, propper amount of fluid, custom tank bracket that just bolts in place, etc.). How long is it going to take you to figure all that stuff out, make the custom mounts, etc.? If you want to get to the same result, it's already done.
- How much do you want to stray from the OEM winch? If you want changes, that would cause you to have to custom make and figure stuff out, then it's more and more tempting to start from scratch.
- Do you want it new, or do you care if it's 20 years old?
- Many more...
On the Sherpas, they are really a different kind of thing. Those are emergency recovery equipment used for short-duration stuff, while the hydraulic winches are 100% duty cycle work horses. It's analagous to asking "Do you think it's ok to have one of those little donut spare tires for your car, or do you want a fullsize spare?"
ramdough
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Plus the hydraulic ones have 280 feet of cable that can go front or rear.
For me it was a no brainer.... anything else would be harder to improve on that. Only improvement I would do if I had spare cash is put in a stronger PTO.
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For me it was a no brainer.... anything else would be harder to improve on that. Only improvement I would do if I had spare cash is put in a stronger PTO.
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coachgeo
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it is a long way to go for it to happen for me.. but since it appears to be such a PITA to install tranny PTO hydraulic pump AND it limits the person to NOT use the transmission for anything else (drive fwd or rev) cause Alison figures it is really not good for tranny.... that another option could be considered
an engine powered hydrulic pump.. 1 off existing engine or 2. Aux. engine 3. electric pump
1. there is a PTO/ hydraulic pump that fits the CAT3116 found in Kodiaks? it had a shaft to bumper.. then pump it appears. for us.... radiator is in the way to go that route.
2. if your going an aux power unit anyway in lue of a generator.. is it possible to install a hydraulic pump on that. (mine is a 2cyl Perkins/CAT). I'm exploring if it will put out enough to run a pump on it for the winch.
3. can you produce enough electricity with engine to run an electric hydraulic pump to operate winch.
an engine powered hydrulic pump.. 1 off existing engine or 2. Aux. engine 3. electric pump
1. there is a PTO/ hydraulic pump that fits the CAT3116 found in Kodiaks? it had a shaft to bumper.. then pump it appears. for us.... radiator is in the way to go that route.
2. if your going an aux power unit anyway in lue of a generator.. is it possible to install a hydraulic pump on that. (mine is a 2cyl Perkins/CAT). I'm exploring if it will put out enough to run a pump on it for the winch.
3. can you produce enough electricity with engine to run an electric hydraulic pump to operate winch.
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ramdough
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Coach,
It is a pain, as in you have to be a contortionist some times, but everything has a place and the install is straightforward compared to reinventing the wheel.
Also, you can run your tires while winching. You have to push the buttons in the right order. I have a post on that somewhere recently on how that works.
I am happy with my choice, but I am not done on the swap. So, that opinion may change.
Just my 2 cents.
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I don't think an engine-driven hydraulic pump would work, because I don't think belts could handle the amount of power being put to it.
- Yes, there are PTOs that have remote shafts, so you can have the pump divorced from the PTO. However, it's the bolts on the actual PTO that are the worst. I don't think putting the pump portion somewhere else would really help.
- Possible, yes, but again the amount of energy being transmitted is pretty extreme. With electric winches they require big cables and will drain batteries very quickly, for the same reason. There is no escaping the physics that you need a HUGE supply of energy and a means to deliver it quickly... gearing to the engine is signifcantly more efficient at that than other roundabout ways (e.g. electricity). 1HP = 746W... so that engine can easily dump many thousands of watts of energy.
- Yes, but it's inefficient and difficult to transmit that energy. Alternators are less than 50% efficient (e.g. put 1HP = 746W in, and you generate less than 373W of electricity, and more than 373W of heat). The big (& expensive) 400A alternators for the LMTVs are only pushing 4800W @ 12V, 9600W @ 24V. That's 12.8HP if it was 100% efficient, and 25.6HP at a more realistic 50% efficiency. The gears in the PTO can handle way more than that, all day, and have no issues. That's why they use hydraulic PTOs... it really is the only solution that makes sense.
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If you buy a pto for you are safe in the 40hp unit range for what your trucks are doing. Even a wrecker. 47hp can run a twin stack 20gpm pump at 2500pei. It will even do 3250. Twin stack is two 20gal a min pump together
Buyers products makes a 50gpm pump which is overkill but only costs $260 and as big as a ham sandwich. Noone needs that speed though.
I recommend not going thru the stock wire harness for pto operation. Leave the activation solenoid as it's own stand alone system. This allows you to bypass the high idle. This is handy for pulls where you would rather run the winch slow for safety or for other reasons like a side guide winch recovery. This also allows you to use the pto while in gear but not recommended.
There are constant engagement pto units available like those found on garbage and fire trucks are available if you wanted to go that route.
I would hope those who added a pto and are planning on going overland that you add a diverter valve and add a twin hose setup much like the FLU419. Hydraulic tools like a chainsaw, porta power can run on 9gpm. The hydraulic 250 stick welder requires around 20gpm and doubles as a spare power source . Even leveling outriggers could be run. This would eliminate the need to carry a bottle jack.
I love hydraulics
Buyers products makes a 50gpm pump which is overkill but only costs $260 and as big as a ham sandwich. Noone needs that speed though.
I recommend not going thru the stock wire harness for pto operation. Leave the activation solenoid as it's own stand alone system. This allows you to bypass the high idle. This is handy for pulls where you would rather run the winch slow for safety or for other reasons like a side guide winch recovery. This also allows you to use the pto while in gear but not recommended.
There are constant engagement pto units available like those found on garbage and fire trucks are available if you wanted to go that route.
I would hope those who added a pto and are planning on going overland that you add a diverter valve and add a twin hose setup much like the FLU419. Hydraulic tools like a chainsaw, porta power can run on 9gpm. The hydraulic 250 stick welder requires around 20gpm and doubles as a spare power source . Even leveling outriggers could be run. This would eliminate the need to carry a bottle jack.
I love hydraulics
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